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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:56 am
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I have gone to F&Ts as well. First off I don't like that Sprague "houses" their big caps in big paper just to look impressive. Also they are too expensive for what they are.
I still use the smaller value caps for bypass and bias though.

Haven't had issues with F&Ts at all..


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:37 am
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mxvin wrote:
....Sprague "houses" their big caps in big paper just to look impressive.

Is it you opinion or you have some proof ?

Also they are too expensive for what they are.

Some F & T are more expensive than Sprague



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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 9:35 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
stratele52 wrote:
Or Sprague Atom.


I'm boycotting Sprague ever since a production run of their electrolytic caps was released for sale that were either mis-marked or failed in-house QA/QC and were shipped to distributors and sold anyway. I'll buy them again but only if they:

A -- publically acknowledge the error, and:
B -- post a shotgun apology on every major guitar-amp forum (including this one)

Failing that, let them pound sand!

Arjay

Sprague are owner by Vishay since early 90's and Vishay make and sell many brands.

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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 10:50 am
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stratele52 wrote:
Arjay ,

I understand your unfortunate experience with these capacitors but it happened once or not often.
If we were to boycott companies each time a product is faulty, we do not buy anything.


Ah, but I don't "not buy anything"......I buy F&T's now for their consistent track record of making and selling a superior product.

stratele52 wrote:
Starting with Fender products. How many times we read on the forum of problems with the guitars and amps?
So we do not buy Fender products anymore ?


I refuse to knowingly pay a single farthing for a piece of crap. As someone with well-documented proclivities and fondness for the silverface amps, I was ecstatic to learn that Fender was building new versions of these iconoclastic models. I was this close (><) to writing a check for the DR version, then the reports of problems surfaced. Whoops! Sorry 'bout that, Fender. It seems they haven't yet learned that the most unprofitable business decision is the one which results in a sale that never occurs.

So, yes......I "do not buy Fender products anymore". Not new ones anyway.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:04 am
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Ajay , I will follow your advise and buy as I can F & T caps

Thank's


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 12:19 pm
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They are a bit more pricey than Sprague's, but it's well worth the upcharge for the peace of mind they provide. You won't have to fix something you previously serviced (as with me).

"I hate paying for the same real estate twice." -- G. S. Patton, General, United States Army

:wink:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 1:06 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
You won't have to fix something you previously serviced (as with me).


Arjay


+100


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:09 pm
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mxvin wrote:
Haven't had issues with F&Ts at all..



Good to know these are German made and that makes a difference. Their products are reliable as opposed to Italian made ..


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:55 pm
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
mxvin wrote:
Haven't had issues with F&Ts at all..



Good to know these are German made and that makes a difference. Their products are reliable as opposed to Italian made ..

Some I believe are made by Leclanche in Switzerland.

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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:08 pm
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I believe the primary site for 'lytic production is Husum, Germany. I've read that the Swiss plant was another company, bought by F&T, which made primarily non-polar caps. Dunno for sure.

In any event, except for certain mil spec caps made in Russia, F&T is one of the few not made in China. For some reason it's been difficult getting direct answers from the manufacturers as to which models/types of Sprague and IC caps (if any) are Chinese.


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:45 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
For some reason it's been difficult getting direct answers from the manufacturers as to which models/types of Sprague and IC caps (if any) are Chinese.


Obfuscation = deception in my book.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 11:41 pm
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I brought up this very subject concerning the Sprague's lytics, a couple of years ago(either here or on another forum). And yeah, I've cut a few open, back then. Found, in- spec Russian and East European caps. The only problem with that, is that the caps were swathed in insulation, not great for heat dissipation. Now that being said, at that time Sprague was still building full-sized caps in North Carolina(I believe). You could determine the imports by the code numbers on the caps. Don't know what's happening with them now!!! I also remember, Sprague saying that some were still USA made and that they maintained the large size to better suit the older amps, for visual purposes. At that time Sprague was, seemingly straight-up ! And Yeah, I contacted the company. Got to say that some folks, in Europe are not totally happy with F&T caps. They have the opinion that high leakage is a problem. JMHO, Art.....YMMV !!!!

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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:14 am
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Art,

There appears to be a growing concern over the bigger, blue covered Sprague ATOM's. Esp those made within the last few years. I have had two or three amps that had new ATOM's fail. I thought at first it was an issue with my soldering, so I went to extra lengths to apply temporary heat sinks onto the body of the caps, when soldering. Still had a failure in a SR and Pro I re-did.

I never had any older orange-covered ATOM's fail. So, I was sure the initial failures were due to me (primarily soldering issues).

I posted this on another board and found others had similar issues. It was random failures. Like a couple in the first filter stage and then one or two 16 or 20mfd caps off the gain stages. So, it wasn't a consistent issue wrt rail position or mfd value.

The posts of dissected ATOM's appeared about five years ago. Cap within caps. Several with distinct Chinese manufacturing codes. Etc. So, I have avoided these bigger mfd Sprague since. Just isn't worth it, when you are re-doing other ppl's amps.

I have not had an F&T fail. This, after maybe a dozen (or more) recap jobs. Along the way, I've found one of the most important things to do during recapping is to replace those 220k-ohm (sometimes 100k or 330k-ohm) load-leveling resistors in the first filter stage. These resistors help balance voltage and current load over the two series caps of the first stage. Apparently, this not only helps evenly distribute the B+ load over both resistors in the first stage (usually 70mfd/350VDC OEM's) --- but also, assures more consistent & quiet VDC being applied to the gain stage filtering caps (usually 20mfd/500VDC OEM's).

So, I've altered a few practices during the last 5 years. I'm now using either wire-wound Mills or 1% precision fire-resistant Kiwames in the power rails, now. And have notice a drop in noise and much more stable VDC readings. Maybe adding these resistors along with the F&T caps has been a synergistic redo, for a better quality power supply. :?:

It seems that effort in the PSU --- including quality solder work --- pays off in not only a quieter amp, but also the overall bass and transient response of the amp. Kinda like using a better battery. Cleaner power, more reserve.


Time will tell.



Kiwame flame-proof resistors:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors ... _watt.html


I've been using these resistors (2 watts) in the grid stopper and screen resistor positions on the sockets.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors ... _watt.html



Mills ww 5 watts:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/resistors_mills_mra5.html


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Post subject: Re: Recapping a 78 silverface Deluxe Reverb
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:18 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
It seems that effort in the PSU --- including quality solder work --- pays off in not only a quieter amp, but also the overall bass and transient response of the amp.


+1

As well as enhanced longevity and extended service life -- always a good thing when it comes to amps (vintage OR contemporary).

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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