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Post subject: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:58 pm
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Hi Fender Forumers,

I have the above combo amp, tube chart OA which I believe codes for 1965 January.
Question is about the speakers, they look old and sound great to me. What more can anybody tell me about them please?

Codes printed on both speakers rims are:

220552 (think first 3 digits means Jensen)
023036 C8284 2 (means anything?)

So if they are Jensens, which model are they?
Would speaker photo help with further identification?
Are they most likely original?

Thanks, Craig


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:44 pm
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220 is the EIA code for Jensen speakers and your speaker was made in 52 week of 65, which would mean it was made after your Jan 65 amp was made so would be a later replacement. Pics would certainly help, not sure of which Jensen they put in the VR's.

The other speaker is a mystery. I couldn't find it on the weber site with all the EIA codes...of course I could have just missed it, been a long day in the sun!

Here is the link so you can do some research.

http://www.webervst.com/morecode.html

HTH

T2

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:45 pm
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The "023036" is Fender's in-house P/N for a specifically-designed Jensen speaker used in the Vibrolux Reverb. Basically, it's the C10Q frame and cone, with the magnet assembly from a C10PS. The voice coil and suspension were enhanced to increase the power-handling capability and provide custom voicing. They're great speakers and worthy of rebuilding (should they need it).

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 7:56 pm
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thanks T2 and Arjay for the info!

Arjay, if I ever was to rebuild these drivers, I would not trust myself (my experience is I helped/watched a friend once rebuild and turned out ok). Do you have a recommendation for an outfit that rebuilds?

Craig H


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:10 pm
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On the left coast, Orange County Speaker Service in LA is a good shop to deal with. For the east coast, Dusty's Speaker Reconing Service in Connecticut provides very personalized service, especially for JBL work. I've also sent some Jensen and CTS speakers to a couple of......(ahem) "gal-pals" who have a shop in the Catalina foothills near Tucson and do a thoroughly righteous job.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:18 am
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thanks again Arjay, I'm on east coast, so Dusty's will probably be it.

Craig H


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:03 am
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This should help get you started......

http://dsraudio.com/index.html

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:11 am
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My favorite 10" speaker... this Jensen, sometimes labelled as C10NS or C8284 in the VLR, and C8306 in the Princeton and Princeton Reverb, was only found on Fender amps in '65 and '66, in the amps I just mentioned. Some people claim they're C10N and some claim they're C10Q, neither is correct. These are C10P, same voice coil (1.5") as the C10N but with a smaller magnet than the N but larger than the Q.

Here's one off of a 66 Princeton dated 3rd week of 66

Image

You can see it's labelled as C8306, no C10 anywhere.

Here's a '66 VLR with a Jensen pair labelled as C8284

Image

My '67 VLR came with a pair of Oxfords, I looked and looked everywhere for a pair of the right Jensens and could never find any, nobody wants to sell theirs! Then one day I found a set of 4 C10P from '66 on ebay so I grabbed them right away! Original cones were tired, so I had two of them reconed locally using a seamed paper cone, same as the original. Dusty has the other two right now and is in the middle of reconing them using a pulp cone, this way I can try both cones and see which I prefer. The seamed cone pair is in my VLR now and sound amazing!

Here's a C10P next to the C8306 from the Princeton, as you see it's the same exact speaker, same magnet size.

Image

Same original seamed paper cone too

Image

Here's one with the original cone and one with a fresh cone that I had done locally

Image

And for comparison here's what a C10Q looks like, with the smaller magnet

Image

You can tell that the Fender gold/brown decal wouldn't fit on the C10Q, magnet is too small for that decal.

I got me some repro Fender gold/brown decals off ebay and here's what the C10P looks like in my VLR :)

Image

Talk to Dusty and tell him what sound you're after and he'll recone them with the right cone for you. The seamed paper cone is supposed to be brighter sounding.


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:45 pm
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Cedar...Thanks for the info...now that is being schooled on Jensen speaker! I did know about the Fender numbering on vintage speakers, good info to know beyond the EIA coding!

:mrgreen:

T2

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:37 pm
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Each speaker adopted by Fender back in the '60s for OEM use in its amps was issued a specific FMI P/N whether Oxford, Jensen, CTS, Utah, and (very early on) JBL. I've compiled a nearly complete list.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:57 pm
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Cedar, sound wise - how would you compare the Oxfords (originally in your VLR) and Jensens you installed afterwards, thanks.

:?:


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:49 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
Cedar...Thanks for the info...now that is being schooled on Jensen speaker! I did know about the Fender numbering on vintage speakers, good info to know beyond the EIA coding!

:mrgreen:

T2

I did my homework, I think :)


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:56 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Each speaker adopted by Fender back in the '60s for OEM use in its amps was issued a specific FMI P/N whether Oxford, Jensen, CTS, Utah, and (very early on) JBL. I've compiled a nearly complete list.

Arjay


So the "023036" is the Fender P/N? Looks like the speaker in the Princeton has a different P/N, "023010", but I believe they're the same exact speaker.

Here's another pair from a VLR, one is labelled C10NS/C8284 and the other C8284. Sorry the pic is not very clear... but you can see that the one labelled C10NS doesn't have the Fender P/N and the one without the C10NS has the same P/N "023036". Both dated the same week.

Image


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:18 pm
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
Cedar, sound wise - how would you compare the Oxfords (originally in your VLR) and Jensens you installed afterwards, thanks.

:?:

Hard to compare, the Jensens now have fresh cones, the Oxfords don't. However, when I first got the amp and played it through the original Oxfords I didn't think they sounded too bad. I've heard Oxfords in other Fender amps and they sounded like crap.

The Oxfords in the VLR have a decent size magnet and feel kinda heavy. Even with the original cones they stayed tight and sounded good.

Image

Looks like they used the same cone as the Jensen back then...

Image

But the Jensens are just better in my opinion... these older Jensens have this rich tone that I don't hear anywhere else. The highs are so sweet and full of harmonics, and the lows stay tight. Hard to describe and I suck at describing tone :mrgreen: they're not very efficient speakers either, but it works out great in the VLR, specially in a bar. You can turn it up to the sweet spot, 6 or 7, and it's not extremely loud. But I've been told they project well and they do sound pretty loud further away from the stage.

Maybe if I have some time over the weekend I'll swap speakers just to hear what the Oxfords sound like.


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Post subject: Re: Vibrolux Reverb BF speakers
Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:57 pm
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The OEM Oxford 12K6 in my '68 Deluxe Reverb sounded like the cone had been laminated with twenty plies of Kevlar -- it was literally strangling the amp's inherent tone like the proverbial Sara Lee pie tin. The gray-basket D120F JBL I installed as a replacement lets the amp breathe. A nice vinty C12N would also be a worthy option. OTOH I have a friend in Tucson who plays his AVRI '57 Strat through an old '62 Concert Amp with the original Oxford 10L5's......it sounds fabulous.

Arjay

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