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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 9:33 am
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Hi guys, I'm hoping for more advice from those familiar with this amp. While I've asked my repair guy to look at the general running & safety, plus the Vibrato (no effect, just a faint "clicking" that corresponds to using the speed/intensity controls) there's one other issue that's been on my mind - I played it next to my Supersonic 22, both 22 watt amps using 6v6s and a 12 inch speaker, and the volume difference is HUGE. I understand that there might be some difference, but to give you an idea, I found that the Deluxe with the volume (on the Normal channel) at 7 was about as loud as the SS22 on 2! The Vibrato channel is quieter again, although I understand this channel will have less gain. Am I right in saying that this seems strange? The tubes are fine, I even tried replacements (for all except the rectifier). I'll speak to the tech about it, but would like to hear if anyone has had a similar experience.
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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:27 pm
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When was the last time the amp had it's electrolytic caps replaced? And the 6V6GTs biased? What speaker is in the Deluxe & the S22?

There is a basic issue with the Deluxe. A healthy one should be plenty loud (in a normal sized room) at "7."


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 6:06 pm
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The SS has a WGS Retro 30, the Deluxe has a Goodmans Audiom 12p. I also swapped the speakers around for comparison. As for the capacitors, I really dont know the history of this amp, except that it's been basically dumped since at least the late 80s. It has had some caps replaced, but even they look ancient. The power tubes that were in it are completely dead, so the ones I installed to test it have not been biased in this circuit. I figured this did point to problems, but having never used this amp before, wanted to hear from someone in the know. Thanks.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:09 am
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Sounds like it needs new caps. Esp in the power supply rail. Along with noise, the loss of transient response and bass is the biggest deficiency.

The bypass caps are prolly dried-up. This condition will cause the amp to sound weak & weedy. A definite too-cold bias tone. Due to the signal tubes (12AX7 & 12AT7) running too cold.

You have also have some coupling caps and resistors way out-of-spec.

In other words, a good R&R would be nice.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:55 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
In other words, a good R&R would be nice.


+1

Likely, the amp has never seen a tech's bench.

It deserves a good measure of TLC.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:04 am
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There are a few threads on the Tremelo/Vibrato ticking problem (tick tick tick or putt putt putt). The fix also helped volume in my own experience. A quick search will get you there.

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:58 pm
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Here's a good site to start at:

http://www.regiscoyne.com/tech/tremolo/


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 9:27 am
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Hey guys, collected the Deluxe earlier this week, and basically haven't had any real human contact since then. Soooooo good. Still can't believe how I found it. I have a few other amps that I can get nice sounds out of, some better than others, maybe sometimes with a certain speaker, or with some adjustment to controls etc. but this little Deluxe is in another league. I can't seem to get a bad sound out of it! Anyways, thanks all for your input.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 11:50 am
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Rawk on!

Have it serviced as soon as possible and you'll have a friend for life.

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:52 pm
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simian wrote:
I can't seem to get a bad sound out of it!


Did you service the amp yet, or you are talking about its original condition? :?:


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 6:19 am
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It's been serviced, capacitors replaced, vibrato repaired and a WGS G12C/S installed.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:44 am
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simian wrote:
It's been serviced, capacitors replaced, vibrato repaired and a WGS G12C/S installed.


Solid!

8)

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 3:41 pm
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Out of curiosity, is replacement of the pictured parts what 'capacitors replacement' means? :?:

Image


Last edited by Nikola Tesla on Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:04 am
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Yeah, that looks like them.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:03 am
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Hi guys - back again for some expert advice - so I've had a few days to play around with this amp. It sounds amazing, but there's still one or two things I'd like to understand better.
* The clean, lower volume sound is slightly thinner than I would have imagined. I've tried a Jensen C12N, a Warehouse G12C, a G12c/s and a Retro 30., and an Eminence Swamp Thing. While these all have their own sound, I still find this thinness in the sound - it's not extreme, the closest I could compare it to would be the sound of my Princeton reverb with a 10" speaker, as opposed to a 12". I think the cabinet may have something to do with it, as it seems quite narrow - anybody else find this? And if so, assuming that I'll never replace the cab, are there any remedies?
Also, I'm wondering if it's been biased a bit cold? I'd really like to learn to properly bias an amp myself, but I dont own a probe, can this be done with a multimeter, or can anyone supply a link? Im aware there are safety issues, but I'm not about to start poking around blindly, and I think I should be able to do this for myself.
One last question - my repair guy replaced the caps (as in, the 4 under the chassis, in the "can" with 22uF caps, although I've noticed that the original values should be 16uF. Is this a big enough margin to affect the tone? I've heard of the effects of "over-filtering" before, but obviously I dont want to assume that I know more than an experienced tech.
Thanks!,


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