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Post subject: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:41 am
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Hey guys - I've just been lucky enough to pick up one of these beautiful little amps, a 1964 Blackface, in reasonable condition - the speaker is not the original, and I'll be replacing that, but I have one tiny question about a cosmetic detail - the amp has no "Fender" logo on the front, and I had intended to replace it, but I've seen dozens of photos of this amp online, in books etc. and it seems that -bar one or two- none of them have the logo badge - is this just a coincidence? Or could it be possible that Fender released a model without their logo on the front?
Call me sentimental, but I like to see that logo !

While we're here, any speaker recommendations? I'm somewhere between a Jensen C12N and a WGS G12C or G12C/S.

Thanks in advance.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 9:29 am
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Neither the Deluxe or Deluxe Reverb nor the amps below it in Fender's "pecking order" received the logo until circa mid 1965. Installation of the logo required that a "shelf" be installed on the baffle board in the upper left corner -- if that shelf is present on a '65 model then the amp likely had a logo at one time but was subsequently removed.

The period-correct speaker for your amp would be Oxford's ceramic 12K5. A Chicago-made Jensen C12N would be a nice upgrade and a sonic improvement.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:59 pm
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Thanks for the info.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:31 pm
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Chicago-made Jensen C12N are going for about $150.
How about the new Jensen C12N, made in Italy? (They are prolly like the new fender amps comparing to B/F oldies?!)


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 4:48 pm
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Italian Jensens have nothing to do with Jensen speakers. The company bought the brand name, and how they make speakers and what they use resembles a Chicago Jensen even less then how a Fiat Panda is made by the same company that made the Ferrari 250 GTO...

I have the Warehouse G12C/S installed in my '65 Bandmaster 2x12 combo (picture below) and like them very much. I also have a set of the G12C's in a closed 2x12 cab for my Showman. If you don't go for a vintage speaker as Arjay recommended, I think you'd be happy with the G12C/S.

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:29 pm
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Many are recommending the Warehouse G12C/S.

I will be on the market for a new speakers soon .. maybe this is the way to go. 8)


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:51 pm
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Nikola Tesla wrote:
Chicago-made Jensen C12N are going for about $150.


If you can't run with the big dawgs, just stay on the porch with the puppies.

That's what good vintage tone costs. If it's too rich for your wallet then Viva Italia!

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:55 pm
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Not at all, I consider $150 for a speaker of the quality described above is more then ok.

I was wondering what is the difference between the C & S models (not much info available on the net on that one ..) :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 8:50 pm
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Nedorama reports excellent results with the Warehouse speakers. He's an old hand at this game and I generally trust his objectivity. His opinion is certainly worthy of consideration.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:02 am
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nedorama wrote:
Italian Jensens have nothing to do with Jensen speakers. The company bought the brand name, and how they make speakers and what they use resembles a Chicago Jensen even less then how a Fiat Panda is made by the same company that made the Ferrari 250 GTO...

I have the Warehouse G12C/S installed in my '65 Bandmaster 2x12 combo (picture below) and like them very much. I also have a set of the G12C's in a closed 2x12 cab for my Showman. If you don't go for a vintage speaker as Arjay recommended, I think you'd be happy with the G12C/S.



Thanks Nedorama- can I ask, do you find a remarkable difference between the G12C and the G12CS? I have the C in a Blues Deluxe, and really like it, but some days I find it just a little bit sharp.
Thanks everyone for your input.


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:48 am
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It's a bit of an apples/oranges comparison, as I have the G12C's in a closed Bandmaster cab and the G12C/S in an open back 2x12 combo. To me subjectively, the G12C/S is a little warmer sounding than the G12C's, and for an open back cab, is what I wanted. I was also replacing a set of Weber California ceramics with aluminum dust caps, so wanted to ensure I erred on the warmer side of things.

Couldn't be happier with both for the different enclosures. I got turned on to Warehouse Speakers by the guy who rebuilt my Showman for me. He had done extensive speaker comparisons for his SFDR and found that the G12C/S was his favorite, only slightly behind the Kendrick Black Frame. But at 1/2 the price of the Kendrick, that very slight difference was quickly negated.

Other benefit - speakers come already pretty well broken in...

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 11:58 am
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Thanks again Nedorama - So, the Deluxe is in for some repairs. Believe it or not, it was being used as a prop (and sometimes as a footstool!!) in a Church Hall since the 80s, and it needs some attention. While the chassis is out, I took the cab home to do a little tidying up (for instance, the glides have been removed from the underside, and a couple of pieces of wood have been nailed on instead!). While I was at it, I plugged the speaker into my Supersonic, and -guess what- it sounds GREAT! It's a Goodmans Audiom 12P, rated 50 watts, with a red label - a little Googling tells me that they're actually quite well regarded. I A/B'd it with the WGS Retro 30 in the Supersonic, I'd say it's slightly more "open" sounding, definitely smoother top end, but this may be down to it's being well broken in. In any case, it's staying in, for the moment at least, and my amazing €300 find just got a little bit sweeter!


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:25 pm
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simian wrote:
the glides have been removed from the underside, and a couple of pieces of wood have been nailed on instead!


Likely, they just fell off due to age and routine handling. The Deluxe amps used a "nail-in" type, identical to those found on the Champ, Vibro Champ, and Princeton/Princeton Reverb. You'll find period-correct replacements on Ebay.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:48 am
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nedorama wrote:
Other benefit - speakers come already pretty well broken in...



You mean when new from the factory?


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Post subject: Re: Blackface Deluxe ("Non-Reverb") - Logo question?
Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 7:55 am
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Yep.

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