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Post subject: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:24 pm
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I've got a little 1964 princeton no-verb, blackface with 5 knobs. It's got a 1964 CTS speaker with no label. It may or may not be original to the amp- either way it functions well. However, I can't help but wonder if I might get even more tone out of the thing with a shiny new weber speaker. I hear such wonderful things about them.

So that's question one: Would you get a replacement weber speaker?

I'm also gassing for a good reverb pedal, but there's a ton to choose from. What do you all think about the Earthquaker Devices Dispatch Master Delay and Reverb? It sounds good on youtube, but just like all of the others. Anybody have any actual experience or suggestions on incredible reverb pedals?

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:47 pm
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I made a video of this amp (albeit with my iphone). It gives you a decent idea of how this amp sounds with this speaker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H8UvccUgtw&feature=relmfu


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:36 pm
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Do you have a "shiny new" amp?

Weber's PR hype aside (my apologies to those who like Webers) I don't think they make a thing that sounds better than an original vintage speaker. My '65 Princeton Reverb came to me with an absolute POFS Quam replacement speaker in it. After re-furbing and overhauling the chassis, I installed a re-coned CTS alnico from a '67 Super Reverb and never looked back. Princetons alternatively came with a number of different speakers over the years -- Oxfords, Jensens, CTS, even Rola and Heppner in the later silverface era. The Oxford is singularly unremarkable but the Jensen and the CTS usually deliver a consistently great tone (those in the know refer to it as "legendary"). If/when the moment arrives that I need a vintage speaker and there are none to be found, only then would I consider a Weber as a replacement.

JMOOC

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:51 pm
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How funny is this I just bought one of these today. Its either a 63 or 64. When it arrives we will get that all worked out.


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:31 pm
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Being an owner of a '64 Princeton (No Verb) I will weigh in on this one. First off, the CTS speakers (of the ALNICO or Ceramic variety) are fine speakers...I have a reconed CTS ALNICO in mine and it sounds fantastic, plain and simple. But IF I were to go with another speaker, I would have to agree with Arjay, it would NOT be a weber. I personally haven't heard a weber that just blew me away...If you are determined to get a new speaker, go with a Kendrick Black Frame. They cost just a bit more, but are clearly superior speakers (IMHO). I have a Kendrick Black Frame in my 67 Champ and it really woke that amp up.

Here is my 64 (Dec) Princeton with my CTS Speaker (courtesy of our friend in Arizona)...
Image
Image

As for Reverb, I don't use it with my Princeton, (Thats what my BFSR is for) but if I needed a reverb, I would just go with a 63 Reissue Fender unit and be done with it.

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:54 pm
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T2 the one I bought today looks just like that. The told me it checked out to be a 63 though. I can,t wait to get it here. Its gonna be my home playin amp.


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:57 pm
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littleboyblue52, Welcome to the board! Boy that amp sounds pretty good, as is. Does it have an AA964 circuit, with the GZ34 rectifier? Those Princetons and the PR (AA764) have one of the best vibrato/tremolo, IMHO.

As for speakers, I've replaced Princeons and PR units with Weber Ceramic & Alnico. Celestion Gold Alnico (12inch in a aftermarket cab). Kendricks Black Frame. Really all kinds. Each one is going to have it's own flavor. The one thing about big magnet speakers (like Weber 10F150), is it's a lot more efficient than most stock OEM ones. So, they are louder, but also need to be driven louder to get to OD.

I'd check the health of that capacitor can and the idle bias on those 6V6GT before spending ANY money on accessories or new speakers. Good luck with your amp, it's one of the best made.

BTW... If you have an external cab, you may want to try plugging this amp into it. In terms of volume and projecting tone, this maybe the best way to go.

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:13 pm
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tbazzone wrote:
T2 the one I bought today looks just like that. The told me it checked out to be a 63 though. I can,t wait to get it here. Its gonna be my home playin amp.



TBAZZ...CONGRATS...by the way, 1964 is the transition year for Princetons, so if it looks like mine then it is a 64...earlier in the year of 64 it would have white knobs and only four of them! It would be volume, tone, speed, and lastly intesity using the barrel knobs. Sometime in mid to late 64 they went to the new layout like mine. When you get it post some pics!

By the way these are GREAT Porch Weasels!

OP sorry for the temporary hijacking..but we get so carried away talking about these great little Fender Amps!

T2

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:27 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
By the way these are GREAT Porch Weasels!


Indeed......!

Image

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:29 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
littleboyblue52, Welcome to the board! Boy that amp sounds pretty good, as is. Does it have an AA964 circuit, with the GZ34 rectifier? Those Princetons and the PR (AA764) have one of the best vibrato/tremolo, IMHO.

Quote:
I'd check the health of that capacitor can and the idle bias on those 6V6GT before spending ANY money on accessories or new speakers. Good luck with your amp, it's one of the best made.


+1 Steve...as always, good advice on checking the Cap Can and bias before changing speaker. If it is a 64 with five knobs it should be be the GZ34 equiped AA964 version.

T2

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Last edited by T2Stratman on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:31 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
T2Stratman wrote:
By the way these are GREAT Porch Weasels!


Indeed......!

Image

:mrgreen:

Arjay


:oops: :oops: :oops: I neglected to give proper credit to Arjay as I believe he coined that term "Porch Weasel"! And it sure does describe these little beasties!

T2

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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:15 pm
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Thank you for all of the input gentlemen. I had the amp checked out by a local tech shortly after I purchased it. I'm certain all of the components are in fine working order.

After taking what you all said into consideration, I think I'll keep the old CTS right where it is. I was under the impression that Weber did what they could to recreate the sound of the old speakers- I definitely don't want a totally different flavor or an increase in volume.


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:15 pm
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LBB52,

congrats and I think your vid sounds great with my headphones on!

Speaker change: recently came into a 1964 Deluxe non-verb, it came with a new Weber and a 1975 alnico Eminence. I swapped them back and forth and the old spkr blew the Web away.

Reverb pedals: also just recently came into a 1961 Super, non-verb also. I like verb so I shopped around taking my Strat and the Deluxe to 4 different purveyors and tested ~12 pedals and the above mentioned Fender 63 reissue tank. Lots of pedals have all kinds of settings like plate, reverse plate, etc. The two clear winners for me were the Wampler "Faux Reverb" pedal and the Fender 63. I chose the pedal because: 1. I liked the tones as well as the 63, 2. the 3 variable adjustments on the pedal gave a wider variety of reverb tones than the adjustments range on the 63, 3. the pedal was 1/3 the price of the 63. Lots of members here love their vintage or RI tanks, the Wampler was good enough for me.

have fun, Craig H


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:35 pm
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chartman wrote:
Speaker change: recently came into a 1964 Deluxe non-verb, it came with a new Weber and a 1975 alnico Eminence. I swapped them back and forth and the old spkr blew the Web away.


That is not exactly an objective comparison, Craig. The "new Weber" may not yet be fully broken in while the Emi alnico has undeniably had some 37 years of "seasoning". I'm not saying that your ears lied (quite the contrary in fact) but in fairness, you may be yardsticking a tangelo against a Granny Smith Apple. If it's truly "new" (as in brand-new) I'm betting that if you log fifty or sixty hours of *vigorous* play on that Weber, it'll start to sing shortly thereafter. You may ultimately still prefer the Eminence but there are plenty of players who get some pretty righteous tones with Ted's speakers. Personally, I -- like you -- prefer vintage over contemorary. But I've installed dozens of Webers in my clients' amps and with few exceptions*, they loved them.

*Those "few exceptions" were those who've heard my '67 Bandmaster with a pair of '66 Jensen Concert Series EM1200's or my '64 Vibroverb with a JBL D130F or my '65 Princeton Reverb with a CTS alnico or my '64 Pro Amp with a Jensen C15N or my......

At which point they become converts.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: I need some advice regarding my old princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:10 am
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littleboyblue52 wrote:
After taking what you all said into consideration, I think I'll keep the old CTS right where it is. I was under the impression that Weber did what they could to recreate the sound of the old speakers- I definitely don't want a totally different flavor or an increase in volume.


Late to the thread - :oops:

I thought the amp sounds fine with the original speaker. Even if you change out the speaker, you want to keep the original in a safe place.

I prefer to keep the OEM speakers whenever possible. I have a ceramic Weber in my SF Vibro Champ, which I love. The speaker it had, while period correct, was not the original speaker. (an anemic Oxford with a magnet the size of a Halls cough drop). The Weber in the VC gives me an different tone than the other amps in my modest collection. And its a player, not a collector.

Speakers are subjective. Everyone hears them differently. Trust your ears. :D

And for Pete's sake.... post some more photos. Your killing us. :lol:


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