It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:38 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:42 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps,

I found a few amps in the garage I bought in the last couple years and I will be opening them in the next few days.

The first I opened is a BFPR w/Jensen C10NS. It looks like the
rear panels have never been removed so I will take some pics of the process. This one look clean. I want to hear your grades.

One thing I did not mention on my 1965 Deluxe Reverb is on the bottom of the cab there is a yellow lumber crayon marking, I never pulled the reverb tank to see if it is a mark from Sam Hutton. Sam worked at Fender back in the old days and he signed many cabs with his initials during the builds. I realize most people here know this, but I;m writing for those who may not know. Several of the guys signed the cabs but Sam Hutton was the most recognized. It resembles a dollar-sign in a way. Sams sigs were signed almost always in the center of the bottom of the cab, and you never know if you have a Sam-Built cab until you remove the reverb tank (If it has one).

When they were building the amps they would match a baffle/grille to each cab, then they would write a set of numbers on both the cab and the baffle to keep them mated during the assembly process. Most amps did not get signed set of initials by the builder.

Image

Here is a real Sam Hutton Sig, his Sig is very consistent on all the amps I seen w/his Sig on them.


Image

This is a counterfeit Sam Hutton Sig, Sam never curved the S
on the bottom and the top of the S is almost always at an angle
like the correct example.
You can also see the yellow crayon is marked on top of 40 years of dirt and grime.
A real Sig would show the wear in the crayon, to match the condition of the cab.

Some people feel they can lure a person to the amp with this
fake $ marking on the bottom of the cab making them believe it's a Sam Hutton cab.

Ron was another gent who signed the cabs, and this marking on my 1965 DR does not look like a Sam Hutton, anyone have a Sig on their amp?

Image


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:56 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:31 am
Posts: 14049
Location: Province de Québec, Canada
Sam Hutton cab worth more ? I never heard about him ,thank's


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:15 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 1467
Location: deep down in Florida...
Thanks for the tip!

I always wondered why my 68 DR has this written on it and if it was done at the factory... don't recall seeing a signature anywhere, I'll have to take a look next time.

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:44 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
I knew that Sam Hutton worked in the cabinet shop of Fender, but never put him and that dollar sign together, thanks for the info. Always wondered who put that in there.

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:16 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
OT, but since we are talking unique logos and labels... You have any idea what "Design & Circuits Patented #_____" means? Seen by power lamp in brownface and blackface amps. But, not in silverface ones?


Thanks!

Image

Image

Image

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:12 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
The Design and Circuits numbers were Leo's Patent applications, and faceplate numbers. Like the front of a Brown Deluxe may say .007 and the rear may be 008.

The Sam Hutton built cabs are not really worth more than any other cab, some people collect them. I have a few because they just happened to be under the reverb tanks when I removed them. Sam did do one of the best Tolex Jobs as well as the straight grille cloth staple jobs. Sam signed a bunch of the smaller amps, Champ, Vibro Champ, Bronco, Princetons etc.

It bothers me that someone would fake his name on an amp.

It's just like the Harry Joyce Sigs on the Hiwatts, people fake Harrys sig too.

Sam was a smart guy who made Fender Clocks that look like the face of the a Tweed Champ (Front View) and other fender novelty things. If you google Sam and then look at the google images you may find some of his handywork.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:21 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
Indeed.

The rear panels were marked with a similar cryptic number as with this pre-CBS blackface Pro Amp......

Image

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:18 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Thanks! So this "Design & Circuit Patented" label prolly has something to do with the "ATT & WE" patent comment on most tube charts. Which ends up really being an RCA patent (as RCA own both ATT & Western Electric during the time most Fender amps were built).

Which is all related to Leo using the ubiquitous RCA Receiving Manuals, as guides for circuit design... :lol:

http://www.vacuumtubesinc.com/TubeTidbi ... nuals.aspx

And of course, why most Fender amps came with RCA receiving & rectifier tubes. Except for those GZ34's & 5881's (which musta cost Leo a pretty penny). :lol:

Serpentine, no?




Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:44 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:48 am
Posts: 26417
Location: Tombstone Territory
The word is "byzantine", Steve.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:34 am
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
Hey Now,

After a full night of music sessions after a friendly dinner party,
I was talking to one of my friends about my music collection and we went to the garage and looked inside another box I never opened before after the purchase. I'm still in shock.

A 1946 Fender Deluxe Model 26 Series 2. Has the original Jensen PM10C dated 200632, original transformers and even has a perfect LA Inspection Sticker (Football Shaped). The Faceplate is near perfect, even has the original power cord.
Wow, this amp is 66 years old. It should have the old Solar tone caps in it w/Minimites. I'm gonna cap-it and get some good glass for it.

After I recover tomorrow, I will take some pics of the electronics. A little tired now.

Anyone here have a Woody?

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/100 ... ematic.jpg


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:04 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Paper.

Kinda like one of these puppies?



Image

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:23 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
Very Cool Bmmer,

I just did an initial inspection, it's all original,
has the original caps, solder joints, clean chassis, and
the surprise is, Leo Signed the chassis, Leo right next to
the PT on the chassis. It even has the original tubes,
5Y3GT 6/48 , both 6V6GT 6/52, the two metal tubes are not
dated from what I can see.

Image

So if the 6V6GT tubes are dated the last week of the year, it's safe to say the amp was a 1947 Shipped amp. It's unlikely someone bought a 2nd set of tubes for this, they had 66 years worth of crud on them. The chassis serial is 1475 , and there is supposed to only be a run of 1500 total, so mine is one of the last built.

I took many pics of the chassis pulled and covered with the original dust. Then I blew-it out with compressed air and used a china bristle brush to remove the years of dirt.

I will organize the pics after dinner.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:39 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
A couple things I noticed, the original power cord has an exact
lightning bolt logo as Leo used on the Model 26, the Cord is labeled Elextronix with a 22 at the top. I don't know if leo like the logo on the power cord plug logo, or was the cord specially made for K&F or Fender? Bmmr, does your amp have the original cord?

I copied the LA Stickers if you want to make any repo's.

The 6SC7 tube is dated 652 . The amp powers-up and the tubes glow, but I'm replacing the caps first before I run it.

The speaker needs to be re-coned.

WWII ended on Sept. 2, 1945 and a months later Leo Fender was well on his way to make music history.

I'm going to install some washers on the power transformer, the screw heads are so small the PT could come right out. It's a little loose. 10uf/25v x 3, 8uf/475 x 2 and 16uf/450v. x1 for the filter caps.

For now I'm going to use a 1957 P10R Gold label.

[img]http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/10080478/1024/Anonymous/leos-cord-logo.jpg[/img

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:09 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Paper, is the "SH" logo on the EBay link legit? And how can you really tell? It's really only chalked on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-FENDER-VIB ... 4d05084e06

----------

Here's a pic of my Model 26 midway through cap-job/restoration. It came with replaced OD SBE 716P coupling caps. Which actually sounds pretty good in this amp. I used Sprague Atoms (NOS yellow puppies). Plain old BP GE 5Y3GT and these great RCA gray glass BP 6L6GA's. And mil spec TS 6SC7GTY. RCA metal mil spec 6N7 splitter (VT96).

Mine is closer to this schemo:

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... 46_pro.pdf

Running these 6L6GA coke bottles, now. Actually, the 5Y3GT is a very good match for these tubes. They don't draw the kinda currents needed for 5881 or 6L6GC. And they have a cleaner, taller headroom than a typical 6V6GT. If you can get some of these 6L6GA, try it out. Tone in the Model 26 is better (IMHO) with the OEM iron --- than using a 6V6GT. Infinite sustain.

Image

I have no idea on today's availablilty of those great Sylvania 6L6GA, GB, and (DON'T LAUGH)--- G-A-Y's. Several sleeves were given to me, about 18 years ago, for fixing an "unfixable" Marshall Lead.

Good luck with that amp! One of the best conversation pieces I have in the shack. :mrgreen:
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Grading & Collecting Vintage Fender Amps
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:07 pm
Offline
Hobbyist
Hobbyist

Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:53 am
Posts: 64
BMW2002Ti wrote:
Paper, is the "SH" logo on the EBay link legit? And how can you really tell? It's really only chalked on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-FENDER-VIB ... 4d05084e06

----------

Here's a pic of my Model 26 midway through cap-job/restoration. It came with replaced OD SBE 716P coupling caps. Which actually sounds pretty good in this amp. I used Sprague Atoms (NOS yellow puppies). Plain old BP GE 5Y3GT and these great RCA gray glass BP 6L6GA's. And mil spec TS 6SC7GTY. RCA metal mil spec 6N7 splitter (VT96).

Mine is closer to this schemo:

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... 46_pro.pdf

Running these 6L6GA coke bottles, now. Actually, the 5Y3GT is a very good match for these tubes. They don't draw the kinda currents needed for 5881 or 6L6GC. And they have a cleaner, taller headroom than a typical 6V6GT. If you can get some of these 6L6GA, try it out. Tone in the Model 26 is better (IMHO) with the OEM iron --- than using a 6V6GT. Infinite sustain.

Image

I have no idea on today's availablilty of those great Sylvania 6L6GA, GB, and (DON'T LAUGH)--- G-A-Y's. Several sleeves were given to me, about 18 years ago, for fixing an "unfixable" Marshall Lead.

Good luck with that amp! One of the best conversation pieces I have in the shack. :mrgreen:
Image


_____

Bmmr,

That Sam Hutton SH sig is a fake for sure, I have seen dozens of real Sam sigs and they are all consistent,like the first photo with the BF Princeton, Sam always has that slanted S at the top and the bottom of the S always goes up, never like the sig in the VV amp. And if the Sig on the VV was real, it would be very worn-down and not on top of all the dirt patina.

The Sig on the top Princeton shows a worn look as it should, unless it was protected under a reverb tank the lumber crayon will wear-off like the BF Princeton. Some people fall for the scam, but real collectors know the markings.

And as I was cleaning the 1946 Deluxe I carefully blew off the dust first, then I used a 2" China Bristle Chip-brush to brush-off the surface dirt on the amp. I noticed a scratch on the amp, I looked closer and it was Leo's name in pencil. Had I washed the amp with a damp towel as I usually do, the Leo sig would have been washed off, or most of it. Something told me to take my time and look close. I have seen a couple lap steel guitars with the same leo sig signage.

When you look at the LA football inspection label, you can see a large thumb-print in the photo. When he applied the glue his thumbprint was etched in the amp for ever. I wiped the area around the logo with a damp towel and the print is still there. It may very well be Leo's print. We need a CSI investigation on this one. I'm going to send it to the Fender Museum and they can check it. Leo signed many early items, many laps and amps.


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: