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Post subject: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:23 am
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I played this last week and I liked it. I'm thinking of going back to the guy with an offer. Is this a fair price for one of these, or is it a little high?
http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/msg/3269964546.html

For comparison, this sold last week for about the same, but was in a little better shape and had a vintage speaker.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261089667694&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNA:US:1123


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:11 am
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The C/L amp is priced a skosh high, given the cosmetic condition and the modern replacement speaker. The Ebay amp also had a non-standard speaker, albeit a vintage Jensen. In either case the original for either amp would've been the Oxford 12K5. If the amp is a "must-have" you might start the dicker at $1700 and see how that offer is received. I wouldn't pay more than $1850 in any event.

JMOOC, HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 9:56 am
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Thanks Arjay. Helpful as always.


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:54 am
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If he has the original Victoria Luggage cover or the original brown-lacquered footswitch, add $100 to your final offer ($150 if he has both).

Best of luck, HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:11 am
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I agree w/Arjay, the amp that sold on ebay w/the jensen is very clean, the color of the Tolex shows there is no Cigg smoke, you can see the pink hue in the Tolex in a few pics. The 1960 Jensen P12R is perfect for this amp and sounds great. Both of my Brown Deluxe amps have the tube chart on the side of the cab. The ebay amp has the chart on the bottom, this is why it's not as fresh looking. Power cord, dust, pedals etc would make it wear this way.

The C/L amp is one I would pass on myself. It's smoke filled, tattered on the bottom. Condition is everything. I would wait for a real clean one like the ebay Deluxe you posted.

There are new Brown Deluxe Amps every few days on ebay as people are flooding the market from the bad economy.

I have one of the rare Export Brown Deluxe amps and it has a selectable "Pin" terminal that slides out and you put it into another voltage. The metal is cold-roll and very strong, you almost need pliers to take it out and install it into another slot.
It makes a tight connection. The voltage board is fastened by the 2 screws, the screws tap the threads into the chassis and from the underside all you see is about 1/8" to 3/16" of the screw sticking through.
The Export Power Transformer has about an extra 1/2" thickness in the plates kinda like the tweed Tremolux vs. the Tweed Deluxe in size.

One of my Brown Deluxe has the leather handle and the other has the rare brown strap handle. The brown strap handles were brittle compared to the black and they are almost always broken. The Brown Strap handles are also thinner than the black handles. They only made one-run of these handles and switched to the black. When the amp was in cold weather and you went to carry it, the plastic would snap and make a clean break. The black strap handles have more of a rubber/vinyl mix to them and they hold up very well.

The voltage in these photos is 117 volts, there was no 120v. back then.

Image

Image


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:31 am
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paper wrote:
The 1960 Jensen P12R is perfect for this amp and sounds great.


+1

Truth be told, the Jensen is -- sonically -- light years ahead of the OEM speaker. I'd shed no tears over the MIA Oxford.

:lol:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:39 pm
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You guys, as always have great information. I liked the amp's driven tone, that's why I'm thinking of going back for it. I play 2 5e3's (6v6 and 6l6 based) and really like their driven tones (a big part of what I play) and this one seems to be in the 5e3 ball park but holds together a little better with the different PI (longtail vs cathodyne) I assume.

paper: why is your take on these? Can you get a nice clean tone out of them? The knock on them is that they sound mediocre clean, but great driven.

I'm going to see the amp tomorrow afternoon and will pull the chassis and take some pics.


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:35 am
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The 6G3 will be marginally cleaner than the earlier tweeds by virtue of an added NFB loop and the long-tail PI. But the B+ remained low -- 375VDC from the PS, around 365VDC at the plates. As well, the bias-modulated trem presents its own set of issues re the audible perception of harmonic and IM distortion (when the trem is switched on). The amp will be cleaner than a 5E3 but only insofar as its still-limited headroom will allow.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:01 am
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" I have one of the rare Export Brown Deluxe amps and it has a selectable "Pin" terminal that slides out and you put it into another voltage. "

I have one suggestion about this amp. Amp off & after discharging the main filter caps. clean the begeebers out of those contacts (91% Isopropanol with work fine). Tighen the female connector a tad. Then, just lightly solder the male connector, once in place.

I have heard several horror stories of recent made Chinese and HK high-end amps eating it, after one of those connectors comes loose. For some reason, the fuse acts too slow to save you from internal chassis damage.

Granted Asian iron is kinda cheesy, at best (except Hashimoto). But lugging that Deluxe amp around is asking for an "oopsies" to happen.

Good luck. Great amp! Hope it keeps the air moving for years-&-years.


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:27 am
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s3mamill wrote:
You guys, as always have great information. I liked the amp's driven tone, that's why I'm thinking of going back for it. I play 2 5e3's (6v6 and 6l6 based) and really like their driven tones (a big part of what I play) and this one seems to be in the 5e3 ball park but holds together a little better with the different PI (longtail vs cathodyne) I assume.

paper: why is your take on these? Can you get a nice clean tone out of them? The knock on them is that they sound mediocre clean, but great driven.

I'm going to see the amp tomorrow afternoon and will pull the chassis and take some pics.


_________________________

When I said clean I was talking about the overall condition of the amp. The C/L Lux is well-used and expensive for the condition.

The Lux that sold on ebay is in great condition, you can see the Tolex sheen is very clean with no Cigg smoke. The brown Lux will pop up on ebay all the time, you may want to wait for a better condition amp so you will have an easier time selling it for top dollar in the future.

A few notes about other amps in the era. class.:

From the 1959 Tweed Deluxe, Tremolux, Vibrolux to the Brown Deluxe to the Blackface & Silverface Deluxe and Deluxe Reverb, the one thing they all share is the Schumacher 125A1A output transformer. This output transformer from this era made magic in the tone in these amps. The Triad 108
is also a great OT and was the OT used before the 125A1A.

Almost all the amps from this era are the best ever made.

Some of the amps I feel are under-powered are the Harvard and the Vibrolux. The PT's are too small to get the best out of the amps. They should have used the Triad 6452 power transformer like the Deluxe. Of the tweeds that used the 125A1A output transformer the Tremolux has the largest Power transformer of the bunch the Triad 8160. If Fender used the 8160 in the Deluxe & Vibrolux it would have made them all gig-able. And if Fender put the 6452 (Deluxe) PT in the Harvard it would have been incredible. And then put the Harvard PT in the Princeton Tweed would be a plus. The Tweed Princeton has the same PT as the Tweed Champ, it has a slightly larger OT in the Princeton. Some people think the Tweed Princeton is 8 ohms, but it's a 3.2 ohm amp like the Champ. The White Amp is the Tweed Princeton circuit. Surprisingly they made a lot of White amps. I have a 1956 (First year) and a 1962 (Last year) White amp. The 62 has the blue molded .02 tone caps. I will look at the serials to see the 1962 number. The covering on the White amp is not a Tolex, it's a Wall-Tex wallpaper type covering. It's not nearly as durable as the General Tire Tolex. The volume & tone numbers go up to 12 on the White amps.

So you may not want to just be "stuck-on" a brown Deluxe, there are so many other amps in this power range you could find. The 6G2 Princeton is nice also, and they sell for good prices, especially the Black 6G2 w/white knobs. (Transitional)

The Blackface Deluxe is a nice amp, many times passed by people wanting the Deluxe Reverb.

Back to the Brown Deluxe, it is a really special amp. If you really like the tone and the amp itself, wait for a better one on ebay. It's an incredible amp, take your time and get the one you want. With the US Banking system about to crash in Jan, I feel the C/L Lux would be a good deal at 1500.00 max.

Cash is King today. Tough times ahead.
I know you can work the price down to 15.
Myself personally, I would pass for a better conditioned amp
w/original Oxford and maybe even the single Black footswitch. Both of my Brown Deluxe Amps have the footswitch, one is black and one is brown.

All the best,


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:29 am
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Wow paper, thanks for all the info.

I'm not stuck on the brown deluxe exactly. I'm not a long time player so I'm in the phase of playing different things to see what I like. I'm learning that I like that size of the 6v6 based amps. I had a 67 bassman which was way too loud, a DRRI which I liked okay, a pristine 62 tremolux, which I didn't like the tone of. I have a silverface vibrochamp that I really like the tone of, but its a little quiet so I want my next amp to be bigger/louder. The 5E3 so far has the sound I like the best, and I'm just trying to see what else is out there as far as these vintage fenders that might have tone I like.

The problem with ebay is that you cant really hear the amp until you have already purchased it, so taste testing isn't really plausible, but I guess now that I have played one of these I could look to ebay for one in better condition.

I saw a blackface non-reverb deluxe come up in Boston recently. I'd like to check one out since I have a vintage reverb tank already.


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:46 pm
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s3mamill wrote:
Wow paper, thanks for all the info.

I'm not stuck on the brown deluxe exactly. I'm not a long time player so I'm in the phase of playing different things to see what I like. I'm learning that I like that size of the 6v6 based amps. I had a 67 bassman which was way too loud, a DRRI which I liked okay, a pristine 62 tremolux, which I didn't like the tone of. I have a silverface vibrochamp that I really like the tone of, but its a little quiet so I want my next amp to be bigger/louder. The 5E3 so far has the sound I like the best, and I'm just trying to see what else is out there as far as these vintage fenders that might have tone I like.

The problem with ebay is that you cant really hear the amp until you have already purchased it, so taste testing isn't really plausible, but I guess now that I have played one of these I could look to ebay for one in better condition.

I saw a blackface non-reverb deluxe come up in Boston recently. I'd like to check one out since I have a vintage reverb tank already.


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A Reverb Tank? Or a Reverb Unit 6G15 ?

You cannot hook up just a tank to a Deluxe amp.

I wrote all the info above on the 6V6 family because I thought it may help you a bit.

Almost everyone here knows about sizing-up an amp on ebay,
so it's always best to check a Forum and ask questions. If the deal is a BIN Buy it now and real cheap, just buy it so nobody will buy it from reading your post while your asking questions about it in a Forum. Sometimes it's best to download the pics of the amp if it's on ebay, then UL them to a free hosting site like http://picturepush.com/upa (No acct needed there), then post the pics in the Forum from the free hosting site. I have seen it happen several times, a guy goes to a Forum and ask's a question about the amp, then 20 dealers see it and they buy the amp ASAP and the OP is ripped.

I find that the best deals are during the day while everyone is at work and the seller who finds one in a closet or estate sale list's the amp during the day.

The circuit board is a must, don't buy an amp with all replaced caps, the orange drop's or the like.

In this economy there are many amps, guitars for sale, so take your time and get the right one. You will never go wrong with a minty clean amp. They always sell for top dollar.


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Post subject: Re: 1962-63 6G3 Brown Deluxe price
Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:18 pm
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Yeah thanks for the 6v6 info. And I did mean a 6g15. I just got home with something though, not the brown deluxe. I'll post some pics in a new thread.


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