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Post subject: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:41 pm
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1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12 Tweed ?

I broke out the big gun tonight in my home studio jam,

I made this custom flame maple 4x12 Deep cab with the
Celestion Blue 15 watt ALNico speakers. I simply pull the chassis out the Tweed 4x10 cab and slap it in the new ride.
All solid flame maple, no veneer. Baltic baffle. Allesandro 18Ga. silver tinned speaker wire w/kester solder make a good bond. This is an amazing sounding amp. I know most of you would enjoy playing this sound.

The Celestions give the Bassman world class tone and it sounds like an early Marshall.

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I put the power tranny chassis screw under the top in a "Tee" so it will not ruin the top having a screw sticking out.
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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:36 am
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Very nice. But why would anyone want a 5F6A to sound like an early Marshall?

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:18 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Very nice. But why would anyone want a 5F6A to sound like an early Marshall?


It is sorta of a strange thing to say since Marshall was simply copying the Bassman circuit in his early amp. There are a ton of articles out there on the subject. He altered the circuit to get the Marshall crunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Amplification

http://www.ampbooks.com/home/classic-ci ... n-summary/
"The Marshall JTM45 power amp is a direct copy of the Bassman 5F6-A circuit except for one very important change: the negative feedback signal is taken from the 16-ohm transformer output instead of the 2-ohm output. This almost triples the feedback voltage, which reduces nonlinear distortion and flattens the amplifier's frequency response at the cost of less overall gain."


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:39 pm
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phansford wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Very nice. But why would anyone want a 5F6A to sound like an early Marshall?


It is sorta of a strange thing to say since Marshall was simply copying the Bassman circuit in his early amp. There are a ton of articles out there on the subject. He altered the circuit to get the Marshall crunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Amplification

http://www.ampbooks.com/home/classic-ci ... n-summary/
"The Marshall JTM45 power amp is a direct copy of the Bassman 5F6-A circuit except for one very important change: the negative feedback signal is taken from the 16-ohm transformer output instead of the 2-ohm output. This almost triples the feedback voltage, which reduces nonlinear distortion and flattens the amplifier's frequency response at the cost of less overall gain."


My point exactly. :lol:

The Amp Books website is an excellent site. I use their calculators all the time. I have all three of Richard Kuehnel's books: The 5F6A Bassman book and his two books on preamp and power amp design. Excellent reading even if you don't like math. :D

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:01 pm
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Paper...that is a beautiful cabinet for the Bassman. I think flamed maple, next to flamed Koa is one of the most beautiful woods out there.

Nice.

T2

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:08 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
I think flamed maple, next to flamed Koa is one of the most beautiful woods out there.


Indeed it is......!

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:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:09 pm
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T2Stratman & ArJay,

Thanks for the kind words, it was a fun cab to design and build. Everyone who comes to the studio wants to plug into it right away. When they finally see what's under the hood they fight to claim that amp for a session. I have a 2nd 4x12 Bassman pine/tweed cab with two old 1957 Chicago Jensen P12R(top) and two P12Q(bottom).


phansford & Bill,

You missed the point of the thread,

The Celestion Blue Speakers & 12" Cab change the sound of the amp in such a dramatic way to give it a tone like an early Marshall. It's the speakers that change the dynamics of the amp not the circuit itself.

Going off in a tangent about an article from Wikipedia
on circuit details is way off topic.

I sometimes forget many people have never played or used vintage gear before.

Again, the point of the thread is the Celestion Blue speakers
change the tone of the amp. It's not about circuit details. Simply plug your guitar in the amp and play a song
while you smile.

Are you guys musicians ?


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:01 pm
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Paper, not to be a stick-in-the-mud ---- but there is a potentially toxic component on your chassis. The bias suppply circuit has a Selenium Diode for rectification. If this should pop, you may have issues.

I'd replaeced it with a UF4006. Note polaity,


http://atomicemporium.com/elements/page ... tifier.JPG


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:19 pm
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paper wrote:
Are you guys musicians ?


Sure, but only since 1966......

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:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:26 pm
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Ummm..... most of the people on this forum own and play vintage gear. Sorta of why we're here. Lately, I've been spending most of my time playing through my 1956 Harvard.

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Don't take every comment as being offensive. You're talking about a 1959 Bassman sounding like a early Marshall because you changed the speakers. Yeah..... they're the same circuit and obviously driver selection will have a great deal of affect on the sonic formula.

paper wrote:
The Celestions give the Bassman world class tone and it sounds like an early Marshall.


Maybe I am confused.... so you're saying without the British-sounding Celestions, the Bassman lacks world class tone? <you know if we want to be jerks to each other..... right?> :wink:

Now to maybe return to being cordial......

I think the maple cab looks great. I would be interested in knowing what the maple does to the tone as much as the speakers. I have a 1954 12" Quam Speaker in wood enclosure. The frame is sold maple and there is pine used over the maple as finished cabinetry. The speaker provides quite a different tone - obviously due to the age and size, but the cabinet woods certainly seem to add something also. Does the pine take some of the brightness out of the maple? Leading to question whether the all maple cab for your Bassman adds something to the tone - maybe not as much as the drivers, but certainly it must add to the formula.

Arjay - Great photo.


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:47 pm
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paper wrote:
The Celestion Blue Speakers & 12" Cab change the sound of the amp in such a dramatic way to give it a tone like an early Marshall. It's the speakers that change the dynamics of the amp not the circuit itself.


Like I said, its a nice cabinet. Also like I said, why would anyone want their 59 Bassman to sound like an early Marshall. In my opinion a real 59 Bassman HAS world class tone. More so than an early Marshall.

paper wrote:
Are you guys musicians ?


What difference does that make?

I guess there is nothing more of interest for me in this thread, so I will take my leave. Enjoy your amp.

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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:55 pm
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Arjay,

Like I said before,
The Celestions in the maple cab sound more like a Marshall.
The tone is like a hard birch Marshall cab.

In my other 4x12 pine Bassman cab w/2 jensen P12R & 2 P12Q
have a softer, sweeter tone for sure. When I use the four P12R speakers it's even sweeter, especially at lower volumes.

The pine cab does sound different.


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:43 pm
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My Marshall experience is limited solely to a brief fling with a Super Lead Plexi half-stack some thirty-five years ago. But I'll take your word for it. I've never really been much of a Marshall fan however.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:17 am
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paper wrote:
I broke out the big gun tonight in my home studio jam

Where's this home studio? I'm ready to jam :mrgreen:

Very nice work!


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Post subject: Re: 1958 Bassman 5F6-A 4x12
Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:28 am
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Are we musicians?....speaking for myself....yeah,since the mid '60s,I've been a newbie,progressed to fairly decent,to an old geezer with arthritis who can't play like he once did.....but it's a state of mind. :lol: btw.....the '67 Vibrolux Reverb is what I'm playing through here...it's wearing my old fedora...those other amps,Marshalls and Line6 somethingoranother,belonged to another band of posers. :lol:
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