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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:15 am
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No, but I've read enough of your threads to know you pretty much don't know what you're talking about. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:32 am
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63supro wrote:
No, but I've read enough of your threads to know you pretty much don't know what you're talking about. :lol:

63 ~ Why contribute negative :?: Contribute to the thread.
Read the comments from "those in the know" :wink:
Maybe you will learn something :shock:
What do you know about MDF, particle board, plywood
birch wood or any materials for an amp or cab :?:
Please share and stay on the OP's tread.
Come, read the thread and join in. Please. What do YOU KNOW :?: :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:59 am
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Topp,

Most of Fender's current lineup (including Vintage Modified) use Baltic Birch and/or Maple plywood for the cabinet construction. Only the speaker baffles are MDF.

The EC line is Solid Pine cabinet but don't know about the speaker baffles.

Art

(note) it would not surprise me if the Frontman Series and possibly the Mustangs were MDF.


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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:24 am
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Art1 wrote:
Topp, Most of Fender's current lineup (including Vintage Modified) use Baltic Birch and/or Maple plywood for the cabinet construction. Only the speaker baffles are MDF.
The EC line is Solid Pine cabinet but don't know about the speaker baffles. Art
(note) it would not surprise me if the Frontman Series and possibly the Mustangs were MDF.


Thanks, Art.
We have mostly been discussing the baffles only, as I made the statement
that baffles are not as good as SOME other materials and that I would use
thick strong quality plywood and/or Birch wood over MDF/particle board.

I will be buying and special order designing several speaker cabinets.
Therefore my interest and inquiry. Of course some just love MDF/ply wood
because "that's what Fender uses" on their later amps' baffles.
On the other hand, I have found some sources and experienced some
bad times with particle board.

Not saying MDF/particle board is bad, it is a distance third choice for me.
And, many many cabinet builders use plywood. birch wood & non-particle board
materials for for baffles.

So, Fender started using particle/MDF in the mid-1960s after 15 years of using plywood
and other woods for their amps. Now, my question is:

Since 1964, had fender EVER used ANYTHING besides particle board/MDF
on any amps in any line during any year for the past 50 years???

If so, which amps and which years?

Looking forward to that answer.
Plywood used post 1964 during any year.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:37 am
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OK. I just checked my 1964 Blackface "NF" Bassman Amp Head.
100% plywood baffle. No particle board.

This is the first. But, would love to hear about Blackface amps or Silverface amps
or Paul Rivera era amps or Bruce Zinky amps or Fender Custom Shop amps.

I will check more of my amps, just need a bit of time. Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:50 am
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Topp,
Glad that we are back to baffles. But the last two pages were I kept seeing the words "cabinet" and "amps" which naturally would mean the entire enclosure.

No foul. Good luck in your search and have fun experimenting.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:00 pm
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Art1 wrote:
Topp,
Glad that we are back to baffles. But the last two pages were I kept seeing the words "cabinet" and "amps" which naturally would mean the entire enclosure.

No foul. Good luck in your search and have fun experimenting.

Art


Yes. No foul, No harm.
I can only imagine an amp cabinet made of 100% particle board.
They are out there.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:10 pm
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I don't understand why Fender did it. Perhaps it was just because that's what they were using at the time but my '69 DSR head has pine sides and a thick MDF front panel under the grill cloth. I wonder why they didn't use thin ply like on the back panel.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 12:18 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
I don't understand why Fender did it. Perhaps it was just because that's what they were using at the time but my '69 DSR head has pine sides and a thick MDF front panel under the grill cloth. I wonder why they didn't use thin ply like on the back panel.


Reading up, "thin" plywood is not good.
3/4" is what I've read as being good. Good strong thick quality plywood (or birch).

Some amp builders only use two sides of the baffles to attached to cabinets
instead of four. This'll give speakers ability to flex with the attached plywood.
Interesting stuff.

Read the links I posted in this thread, lots of interesting knowledge shared
and reasons why SOME WOODS are better than Particle/MDF.


***BTW, how do you know your DR has MDF rather than partice board?
Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 1:58 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
I don't understand why Fender did it. Perhaps it was just because that's what they were using at the time but my '69 DSR head has pine sides and a thick MDF front panel under the grill cloth. I wonder why they didn't use thin ply like on the back panel.


Thin plywood on the back just to keep hands and stuff away from the tubes and any other component that might be exposed. Basic protection for hands and tubes.

MDF on the front (baffle/panel/valence) because that matched the material used on the speaker cabinet.

It makes production quicker and assembly as well. All sides, tops, bottoms from 3/4 ply; fronts from MDF; back thin ply. CBS was trying to cut costs wherever possible. They also went to neoprene insulated wires vs. cloth at about the same time, 68 - 69.the back panel on the DSR might be the same as the one on the Twin Reverb in 69.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:31 pm
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Art1 wrote:
Arc-n-spark wrote:
I don't understand why Fender did it. Perhaps it was just because that's what they were using at the time but my '69 DSR head has pine sides and a thick MDF front panel under the grill cloth. I wonder why they didn't use thin ply like on the back panel.


Thin plywood on the back just to keep hands and stuff away from the tubes and any other component that might be exposed. Basic protection for hands and tubes.

MDF on the front (baffle/panel/valence) because that matched the material used on the speaker cabinet.

It makes production quicker and assembly as well. All sides, tops, bottoms from 3/4 ply; fronts from MDF; back thin ply. CBS was trying to cut costs wherever possible. They also went to neoprene insulated wires vs. cloth at about the same time, 68 - 69.the back panel on the DSR might be the same as the one on the Twin Reverb in 69.

Art



That makes sense about the valence Art. As I recall the TFL-5000D designation on my amp means the wiring is teflon insulated.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:33 pm
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Here's some interesting tidbits....


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=types+of+wood+in+s ... nstruction


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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:07 pm
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Art1 wrote:
Arc-n-spark wrote:
I don't understand why Fender did it. Perhaps it was just because that's what they were using at the time but my '69 DSR head has pine sides and a thick MDF front panel under the grill cloth. I wonder why they didn't use thin ply like on the back panel.


Thin plywood on the back just to keep hands and stuff away from the tubes and any other component that might be exposed. Basic protection for hands and tubes.

MDF on the front (baffle/panel/valence) because that matched the material used on the speaker cabinet.

It makes production quicker and assembly as well. All sides, tops, bottoms from 3/4 ply; fronts from MDF; back thin ply. CBS was trying to cut costs wherever possible. They also went to neoprene insulated wires vs. cloth at about the same time, 68 - 69.the back panel on the DSR might be the same as the one on the Twin Reverb in 69. Art


Good stuff, Art.
Any dates for the transition from Plywood baffles to MDF or particle board baffles?
Cost was the CBS factor?
Any amps from the late 1960s to 2012 to use any wood for baffles?
I am stating the particle board/ MDF is not wood.

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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:11 pm
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No problem Rob

Neoprene, Teflon, Vinyl, to me it's all plastic and not cloth. But maybe it is a better insulator.

As far as the "valance", bear in mind that they wrap grill cloth around that and staple on the back side, and then screw the Fender logo on with several screws, so I would expect it needs to be sturdier than the rear partial panels.

Art


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Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 3:12 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
That makes sense about the valence Art. As I recall the TFL-5000D designation on my amp means the wiring is teflon insulated.


I have two TFL amps and have studied the Teflon idea.
Will have to look it up, but "Too Freakin' Loud" as an inside Fender joke made sense.

Also, one guy went into Dupont's late 1960s parts catalogs and discovered
parts for TFL5005 or TFL500D either supported or discounted the TFL theory.

I know where those notes are from last year, so I'll seek them, later.

Believe me, the TFL answer quest is a fun one

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