It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:39 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:32 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Topp....man,quit showing how little you know about vintage Fender amps,.....or should I just say,check the baffle on some Blackface amps next time you happen to see one.....!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:03 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
Rebelsoul wrote:
Topp....man,quit showing how little you know about vintage Fender amps,.....or should I just say,check the baffle on some Blackface amps next time you happen to see one.....!


Thanks, Rebel. I posted some photos of a few of my amp's backside.
I find this thread very interesting.
Definitely, some amps are plywood and some are particle board.
Some are hard to tell without a closer inspection.
Bottom line, Fender offered amps with at least two or more different baffle board wood.

Think about it. Some of the most famous sounding/tone amps are your
Tweed Twins Bassmans Bandmasters Super Amps Tremolux's Vibroverbs Deluxes etc.
And many of the best ones do not use particle board.
Might be something there for that very reason.

So, I'll take plywood or any wood other than particle board.
For the many other reasons I've listed before, and for the fact that plywood is the
most dominant used baffle wood within the most famous Fender amps ~ hands down.
Plywood is the best. Don't you think?

Imagine making speaker cabinets like this thread's OP desires.
He has choice. He can use plywood Tweed style or particle board 1970s style.
Us Fender lovers have no choice, we buy what the amp is, plywood or particle board or whatever. Right?



======================
1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1964 Super Reverb 4x10 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1964 Fender Twin Reverb 2x12 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1995 Fender Vibrasonic 1x15 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1960 Fender 6G4 Super Amp 2x10 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image

Image




======================
1968 Fender Bandmaster Reverb TFL5005D Amp Head ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1968 Fender Bassman Amp Head ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1983 Fender Concert II 1x12 ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================
1962 Fender 6G4B Super Amp 1x12 Modified ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image




======================

100% Pure particle board disaster. 1968 Fender Twin Reveb 1x12
Image




======================
1984 Fender Twin Reverb II Amp Head ~ Strange baffle board
Image

Image

Image




======================
1968 Fender Showman Reverb TFL5000D ~ Particle Board or Not???
Image

Image

Image



Toppscore :)

_________________
Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:51 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 5646
Location: Gateway to the West
Topp...way to prove our point, nearly all the amps you listed (MDF or Not?) but the tweed Fender had partical board baffles and yet YOU didn't know that?...if you can't tell partical board from plywood, you do not need to expense ANY advice on cabinet making one way or the other. Build a few, then you get to pass on your sage advise, until then leave to those that actualy have done it!

T2

_________________
-----------------------------------------------------------
What time is it? It's Fender Time.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 4:37 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Seriously Topp???!! :?
You can't tell and think that all that great music of the 60s made with Blackface amps none had particle board baffles,look at that '64 Super Reverb!!......I give up!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:17 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 4238
Location: Pgh Pa
This fool is destroying this site almost everything that gets posted has his stupidity attached to it anymore. Nothing is helpful it usually just starts fights. We are all dumber for being subjected to his drivel. Im done.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:43 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
Not really sure who, Topp?, but the reason the 70's cabinets had so many problems is because CBS, in their infinite wisdom, decided to use lap joints rather than finger joints, as well as using dado joints for the baffle (a groove routed in the cabinet that the baffle slides into.) Securing the baffle permanently this way they thought they could cut corners and time and go to lap joints for the cabinet corners. So, all the torsional stress on the cabinet is absorbed by the baffle, which cracks.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:45 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
"1984 Fender Twin Reverb II Amp Head ~ Strange baffle board "


Ok... you got me. Baffle board on a head unit?

BTW--- I've built many subwoofers out of MDF. I had access to proper tools and used a countersunk bolt and nut (draw-bolt) combination to hold the pieces together. Some SW running two JBL D131, 136A, or LE15A ---- being driven by Crown or 500 Watt SAE amps.

http://eberhardt.bz/GME_Wood_Land/GME_W ... _Joint.pdf

None have fallen apart yet. And the low inherent resonance frequency of MDF best suits SW use. Almost all high end hi-fi SW use MDF. Like Velodyne. So, if done properly, no issues.

It's just that MDF sucks the midrange harmonics out of guitars. Birch & pine are very close to the material used to make guitar bodies. So, they should have acoustic properties similar to guitars. I have never seen an alder or mahogany built cab.

This is a case of Physics & availability. More than ascestics. IMHO.

(note: no Emoticons! Wee!)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:59 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
BMW2002Ti wrote:
"1984 Fender Twin Reverb II Amp Head ~ Strange baffle board "


Ok... you got me. Baffle board on a head unit?

(note: no Emoticons! Wee!)


Yep. My 69 Bassman head has MDF baffle. (partition whatever) The grill cloth is wrapped around it. And you need a 10 - 12 inch screwdriver to easily remove it.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:09 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Art, Isn't "Baffle" board refer to wood which the speaker is attached to? Like a sound board? At least that's the way I learned it.

" 1954 Fender 5D6 4x10 ~ Particle Board or Not??? "

http://i1136.photobucket.com/albums/n48 ... C01174.jpg

Topp, be careful. Looks like you stapled through some speaker wire insulation. I don;t think staples are a good idea for this use. JMO.


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:21 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
In one sense it is. In the larger cabinets the "partition" between the speakers is also referred to as a baffle.

According to the dictionary: "to check or deflect the movement of (sound, light, fluids, etc.). "

I suppose you could more properly call it a front panel, but it really isn't that either. More like window dressing. But in the case of the Twin Reverb II head, it does have ovals cut into it which does allow some light through,....

Not even sure why I posted because here lately, some people (NOT you,) seem to be very argumentative about the smallest little thing. Although I am certainly no Fender historian, I do know what I own and what I have played with and through over the years. And when someone with more experience and knowledge than I chimes in, I yield the floor to them.

Any how, now I'm the one who is "baffled."

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:29 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Art, no harm, no foul. A lot of lingo is intermingled. With little precise definitions. On my side of the continent... Baffle board = speaker board.

I believe Fender allowed some "air space" in their head grilles for cooling purposes.

Hey! There is a guy redoing a 400PS on another board. Sextet of NOS GE 6550A = guess how much? (plus one JAN-Sylvania 7581A)


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:37 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
Oh, it wasn't you, :lol:

A sextet? Much more than I have on hand right now. :shock: I'm afraid to even ask.. I don't even like the price of new 2012 tubes. I only use them because solid state is just too sterile and no warmth. (even when discrete components are P2P wired.) That and the drive channels kinda suck.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:45 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 pm
Posts: 6544
Art,

That Owensboro, KY made GE 6550A is prolly one of the most highly desired bottle. Along with GEC/MOV KT-66's. Mullard/Amperex GZ34.

$4K... Seller through in NOS 7581A for free.

Sorry, for venturing too off topic.

Back to OP (many moons ago...). I find smaller internal Cu ft in a cab = punchier bass/mid. But, quicker rolloff. As the inherent resonance frequency of the cab will be higher. A bigger cab = deeper bass. But, a slightly "slower" response to articuations (in general --- depends on guitar setup and speakers). Too much internal voume = flubby, very slow tone. Almost devoid of any midrange harmoncis. Best to check your speaker manufactuer's specx sheet. DON'T too big = too low resonanace. Esp below the inderent rez frequency of the speaker.

The Celestions are great speakers. Greenback and the Vintaage 30 have their own unique tone. I really love my Matchless loaded with V30. Best "new" 15 watt amp I test drove, at the time. Rich tone. Great harmonics. And can be over-driven to the max. Not a true super clean "Fender tone." Very complex harmonics, from low volume, up. Still cleanly plays high notes.

A friend has a Chieftain loaded with one Greenback and one V30. Man, it is quite an amp. Recording quality, for sure. I don't think you'll be disappointed with those speakers.

Good luck!


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:49 pm
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 8:54 am
Posts: 1179
Location: Florida
LOL

I could get a sextet of call girls for less than that! :mrgreen:

Ooops, got way off-topic with that one.

Those are going to sound Sweet! I hope they last for a few years.

Art


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: Building a 2x12 cab for my Bandmaster
Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:01 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
T2Stratman wrote:
Topp...way to prove our point, nearly all the amps you listed (MDF or Not?) but the tweed Fender had partical board baffles and yet YOU didn't know that?...if you can't tell partical board from plywood, you do not need to expense ANY advice on cabinet making one way or the other. Build a few, then you get to pass on your sage advise, until then leave to those that actualy have done it! T2


Of course, silly, I knew the earlier amps do not have particle board.
The questions are for you, not me.

Actually, SOME of the 1960s I did not know or care. Now, I know.
And, no matter, IF THERE IS A CHOICE, personally, I'll go with quality thick plywood.
Many vintage amps provide no choice. You get what it is.

I asked the question to invite inquiry.
Can anybody really be sure of plywood or non-particle board installation (versus)
particle board installation WITHIN EVERY AMP during EVERY YEAR from 1946 till 2012?
I think not. Be real. I mean really be really sure that you do know without exception?
Early transitional amps? Late transitional amps? Doubt it that anyone knows.

IMHO, except for my personal bad experience(s) and many shares from others, there's
been no positive comments regarding particle board baffles vs many complaints.

Off-hand, we know above early 1960s and the 1954 are not particle board, the 1962
Super Amp is plywood. The 1968 Bassman is plywood. Maybe some of the amp heads are plywood.
The 1968 Twin Reverb was replaced with plywood ~ not sure if it started out with particle.
Personally, they are what they are. If need to replace, we all have our choices.


Be honest. After all the babble within this thread, if you are going to design & build
your own combo amp or speaker cabinet, are you going to use particle board
or quality thick plywood? I am for the quality plywood ~ for many reasons.
Toppscore :)

_________________
Image


Last edited by Toppscore on Tue Sep 04, 2012 4:10 am, edited 2 times in total.

Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: