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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:33 am
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From my experience They start to come alive at about 3 to 3.5
Before that it seems a lot of highs are subdued and the Older Fender 6L6 amps just get sweeter as the volume rises !

I cheat and used my Compressor as a clean boost ang get full and amazing sound at 1.8 to 2 on the volume dial.

Congrats !!! Now your Hooked.
The first step in getting help is to buy more vintage Fenders !!!! :mrgreen:

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:33 am
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Hey! I haven't been around much; they changed our internet policy at work so I can no longer read and post during the day.

I finally got the chance to test my Bassman with a friend at high volumes. Man that thing ROCKS. The first thing my friend, a drummer, said was "Wow that amp has a real kick to it!" There's so much body and fullness to the tone-- and so much distortion too, which was a real surprise!

I was getting full, raw rock n roll distortion with the volume no higher than 5. I'd prefer if I was getting a little less "heat" and a little more "warmth" and I am looking to swap in some 5751s. Buttery cleans with a little breakup as opposed to full distortion. And yes I've tried the "guitar volume knob" trick, but I still find the sound a little hot.

My main question is, should I order 3 tubes to place in each preamp spot? I use both guitar and bass channels simultaneously so I figure at least 2 would be necessary.

I know this is a subjective question and any input from folks who use 5751s is appreciated.

I'm considering buying the Jan-GE 5751 because they're easy to find, affordable, and have a good reputation. Thanks guys!


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:50 am
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If you're channel-jumpering, I'd leave the bass channel's 7025 (V1) in situ but replace the normal channel's V3 (1st and 2nd gain stages of that channel) with the 5751. That should "tame" things down a skosh.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:27 am
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Yeah man, so if the the amp is a 165, both channels run through V-2 before hitting the phase inverter(V-4). This is where I'd try the first GE 5751. Then either V-1 or V-3. JMO.... Too many 5751's in the tone zone can dull the signal. Arjay makes a good point about changing the initial input on one channel, and having the other channel at a higher gain potential. So, yeah it's pretty wide open to experimentation. Art

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:18 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Too many 5751's in the tone zone can dull the signal.


Just as I suspected which is exactly why I asked. Two different gain potentials as well should be very interesting. Thanks for the quick reply and ideas, you dudes are the greatest!


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:52 pm
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You got it, Man!!! Just trust your ears!!! Art

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:47 am
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I thought of another, more technical question, out of curiosity.

How does the signal flow work when jumping channels?

I assume you end up using all three preamp tubes, but, is the signal getting duplicated? Then the original signal (guitar channel input) goes to V3, and the duplicate signal (bass channel input) goes to V1, with both passing through V2?


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:32 am
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When channel jumping, the signal from the guitar is split between the two channels, roughly half going to each channel. The flow is as you've described.

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:49 am
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5751s should be here next weekend.

Until then, here's some amp porn:

Image
http://postimage.org/image/urhjfwoc5/


The sweet spot for cleans is definitely around 3-3.5 (Thanks blues bondsman)
The tone is real pure, balanced and crystal clear.
Definitely different from a sunny, brilliant tweed amp tone.
Looking forward to messing around in the years to come to find different ways to voice this amp.

Plus, it makes an excellent home stereo :lol:
The tubes really bring recorded music to life.


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:06 pm
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Thats a beautiful set up


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 7:56 pm
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What a classy rig.


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:05 pm
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Today I bought a Tung Sol 12ax7 and placed it in V3. This made a considerable difference and there is now noticeably more high end "glow" in my tone. :D

So far I've been using NOS JAN Phillips 12ax7WAs for my preamp tubes. They definitely sounded better than Shuguang or the random Russian tubes that originally came with the amp, but they had a few problems. I couldn't help but notice how much more the Cutom Shop 57 Champ and 57 Twin at the local store seemed to 'shine' than my amp. The JAN Phillips were very low-mid heavy, which gave them a fat, buttery character, but they lacked some real high end glow. As well, if I turned the treble above 5 they became harsh, and below 5 they lacked detail (similar to the review here: http://thetubestore.com/12ax7review.html#12ax7wa)

The Tung Sol certainly have less mids but I don't miss them because this a better all-around guitar tone. And the tone knobs are fully useable now! Only with the Treble on 10 with the Bright switch on do things get a little shrill-- and only a little!

The JAN Phillips are not without their use. For starters, I have one in the Bass channel for the moment; when channel jumping, my tone is more complex than before. The mid heavy JAN tube complements the brighter, scooped tone of the Tung Sol nicely. Second, I moved the JAN tube I had previously used in V3 into slot V2 (replacing a generic Russian tube). This seemed to make the sound "tighter" and provide better definition and clarity. Maybe, maybe it added a little mid range to the guitar channel.

Once the 5751s arrive, things should really get interesting. I'm really eager to record a "tube shootout" for anyone who wants to learn more about pre-amp tubes!

I like the Tung Sol so much however that I may have to find another method to get more headroom! Seems the next best route would be to buy a pair of power tubes (potentially Winged C?) and get the amp rebiased. This would require some gear selling, and I don't have much left to sell. But, one step at a time!


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:48 pm
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Your Bassman would be an ideal candidate for Winged C's.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:13 pm
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Another tube you might want to consider is the re-issued "Mullard" 12AX7. These are long plates and have a more midrange tone to them (than the RI "TungSol" 12ax7).

Getting them from a seller that tests for noise, as well as strength is nice -- due to the long plates.


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Post subject: Re: NAD - Pine Cabinet '68 Bassman
Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 10:47 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Another tube you might want to consider is the re-issued "Mullard" 12AX7. These are long plates and have a more midrange tone to them (than the RI "TungSol" 12ax7).

Getting them from a seller that tests for noise, as well as strength is nice -- due to the long plates.


+1

Especially so if these are going into slots traditionally allocated to 7025's. You want the best S/N ratio you can get so the amp idles quietly.

HTH

Arjay

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