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Post subject: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:44 am
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I'm sure that this subject has been beaten to death and yes I searched the subject of blackfacing but what I found for the most part is blackfacing the early circuit silver faces. However I have a late model silverface a 1981 super reverb 70 watt with the UL transformer. First let me ask what should this cost? What's the average ball park cost for this? I was asking around and found an amp tech that works out of his house. He's good and does good work but some things he explains to me just don't make total sense.
1st he says that he has to pull the ultra linear output transformer and convert it to a 40 watt amp.
2nd he needs to yank the solid state rectifier and replace it with a tube rectifier.
3rd he says that because its going to be completely rewired in a sense that he mentioned I may loose my reverb and vibrato.

Here is why this does not make sense to me - with what I have read and seen blackfacing in a nut shell is rewiring pin 8 on the output tubes directly to ground, rewiring the bias circuit to make it adjustable. And adding some extra components to mimic the blackface circuitry.

Am I missing something here? What happens I just do the above mentioned and not replace the ss rectifier with a tube rectifier and left the output transformer in place?

And once and if its ever blackfaced is it customary to replace the silverface with the actual blackface plate?

Thanks for reading


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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:37 am
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Morbe, I assume you wanna go back to AB763 circuit? To do it correctly, you need to use a OPT that is standard with those circuits. And a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier. These changes affect the voltages and idle bias settings of the amp. All part of the magic.

A lot of the tone of the classis SR comes from these parts, as well as the four great alnico speakers.

If the circuit is reverted correctly back to AB763, you should have no issues with the reverb/vibrato. They are working now, correct?

There are several posts on the Net about this sort of conversion. You may want to check them out before making the decision.


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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:12 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Morbe, I assume you wanna go back to AB763 circuit? To do it correctly, you need to use a OPT that is standard with those circuits. And a GZ34/5AR4 rectifier. These changes affect the voltages and idle bias settings of the amp. All part of the magic.

A lot of the tone of the classis SR comes from these parts, as well as the four great alnico speakers.

If the circuit is reverted correctly back to AB763, you should have no issues with the reverb/vibrato. They are working now, correct?


Everything works but the vibrato , but I have never in my life played nor desired the vibrato. And yes I'm am looking to black face the amp to the desired AB763

So are there any paid techs here? What would you guys charge. Whats a decent price? How much is too much?


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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:48 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Morbe, I assume you wanna go back to AB763 circuit?


This will NEVER happen. The circuit bears absolutely no relationship to Leo Fender's Super Reverb. The solid-state rectified power supply, ultra-linear output stage, and Twin Reverb style tone stacks in both channels do not belong in the AB763 revision and it's simply not cost-effective to "get there from here".

You're better off unscrewing the pilot-lamp jewel, rolling the amp out of the way, sliding a proper Super Reverb beneath it, then screwing the light back in.

:mrgreen:

Or just buy yourself a re-issue.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:06 am
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Or, as we used to say down south, "Jack-it-up and run a new one up-under-it." :lol:

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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:15 am
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And you know I've thought about that also. Buy the super reverb kit and putting it in there.
The RI super reverb isn't hand wired is it?
So I guess fact of the matter is it needs to get gutted and rebuilt as the old circuit. Well ill just wait till I get a catostrophic failure in it. Unless there's an easier way. Buying a reissue is not an option for me :cry:


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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 10:51 am
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Wow! What a complete brain fart! Looking at the two circuits... all irons would need to be changed. Extra hole punched for that GZ34 socket. The bias power supply circuit. Like Arjay said the whole tone stack/local and global feedback on the gain stages. Circuitry on the phase inverter. In other words, too much mods = possible fail end-point.

Sorry about the dis-infomation.


http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... tr_rev.pdf

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf


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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:39 am
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morbe wrote:
And you know I've thought about that also. Buy the super reverb kit and putting it in there.
The RI super reverb isn't hand wired is it?
So I guess fact of the matter is it needs to get gutted and rebuilt as the old circuit. Well ill just wait till I get a catostrophic failure in it. Unless there's an easier way. Buying a reissue is not an option for me :cry:


No -- the SRRI utilizes PCB's like most modern Fender amps.

But I'll give you a clue if you promise not to divulge what I say to anyone......





























The SRRI sounds more like a Super Reverb than what you're currently playing.

(shh......!)

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:30 pm
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If you want a Super Reverb AB763, sell the amp you've got -- it's so far removed from a Super Reverb that you'll spend way too much money to "convert it."

Get a mid 70's or earlier SR and enjoy. Or the reissue.

Polishing a turd, even one that's cryogenically frozen, still leaves you with just a shiny piece of sh$%.

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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:34 am
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Looks like not all 'blackfacings' are created equal.

Some silverfaces are identical to their earlier blackface counterparts. Some have a few minor changes and then others are entirely different beast.

Caveat emptor

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Post subject: Re: black facing the worst silver face in fender history!
Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:47 pm
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mhowell wrote:
Some silverfaces are identical to their earlier blackface counterparts. Some have a few minor changes and then others are entirely different beast.


+1!

This example is the paradigm of the third category.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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