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Post subject: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:12 pm
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I ask this before I get into a discussion of working on circuit boards here or in the modern amp section.

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:06 pm
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It depends on how you define "vintage".

Printed circuit boards are relatively new technology. Consumer electronics companies didn't start using them until the mid'60s and they didn't really become dominant in the marketplace until the mid'70s. So no '50s or early '60s amps had them, simply because outside of missiles and airplanes nothing had the cutting-edge PCB technology yet.

Marshall started using PCB's with the introduction of the JCM800 series in the late '70s. Ampeg started using PCB's in the late '60s -- SVT's have always had PCB's. All Mesa/Boogie amps have had PCB's. Clapton used MusicMan amps in the mid'70s and Soldanos in the early '80s, all with PCB's. So lots of classic amps have been designed with PCB's. Some definitions of "vintage" would include '70s and early '80s PCB amps.


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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:42 pm
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Amp that I've worked on... first with PCB was the 1970's Ampeg V4. What a GREAT amp---once you figured out that the schematic usually does not exactly match the amp (despite it being a "virgin").

Those 12DW7 gain stage, 6K11 triple-triodes, 12AU7 PI, and 7027A output tubes really made for a unique, powerful tone. FWIW... the CBS-Hytron 5418A or 7618 tube (for the 12AU7) makes this amp absolutely a killer.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showth ... p?t=674409


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:48 pm
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So, which Fender amps and what year had the first
Green Blue or Gold PCB Boards?
Before, during or after the Paul Rivera era?

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:31 pm
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I guess I should be more clear. I am wondering if PC boards of any kind were used in Fender amps (I should have stated Fender in the title) before 1985 and it matters not what color board was used (That's why I stated PC board), it matters not who designed the amp (That's why I stated Vintage amps) to be relevant to this thread. If the answer is yes then I am curious to discuss the experiences members here have had with working with such boards. I have heard of peoples difficulties working with such boards and I would like to get first hand information from those who work on these puppies.

Sorry if I misled anyone. I was looking for a Yes or No from someone "in the know" before getting into the meat of the issue.

Thanks

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:53 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
I guess I should be more clear. I am wondering if PC boards of any kind were used in Fender amps (I should have stated Fender in the title) before 1985 and it matters not what color board was used (That's why I stated PC board), it matters not who designed the amp (That's why I stated Vintage amps) to be relevant to this thread. If the answer is yes then I am curious to discuss the experiences members here have had with working with such boards. I have heard of peoples difficulties working with such boards and I would like to get first hand information from those who work on these puppies. Sorry if I misled anyone. I was looking for a Yes or No from someone "in the know" before getting into the meat of the issue. Thanks



I know the 1987 Red Knob Twin had PCB boards.
I am thinking about the Fender 75 and 140 from the late 1970s and early 1980s.
I will have to check, because I always wanted to know which line of Fender amps
were the first to have the PCBs.

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:09 pm
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Arc. Thought the Red Knob Twin would be one of the first.
I'm still wondering about the type of the circuits used within
the transistor amps of the late 1960s and early 1970s.
Following are a couple of interesting cool quotes:

The Red Knob amplifiers were produced from 1987 until 1993. These were some of the first models produced by the newly formed Fender Musical Instrument Corporation. These amplifiers, named for their bright red control knobs have a slightly similar appearance to the older Blackface cosmetics, having black control panels with white lettering and the late 1970s "scripted tailless" Fender logo. Many of these models were simply refitted with black knobs and early 1970s "unscripted tailless" Fender logos in 1996 when most Fender amplifier manufacturing moved to the Ensenada factory in Mexico. This series of amplifiers all used printed circuit board construction and the tube amps are notoriously difficult to service. The Red Knob amps, with their high-gain channels, had their own sound, not much like the older classic Black and Silver Face designs.

In 1969 more transistor amplifiers were introduced, including the 'Zodiac' series and the behemoth 'Super Showman System'. Seth Lover, the legendary designer of the Gibson
"PAF" pickup, and another former Gibson employee, Richard Chauncey Evans, were hired to help in designing the latter series, which consisted of a 'SS-1000' preamplifier head and 'XFL-1000' and 'XFL-2000' self-powered speaker cabinets. The head featured three cascadeable channels, a "Dimension V" oil can delay effect, reverb, vibrato, and a fuzz. The powered cabinets could switch between normal and "tube-emulated" operation.
Zodiac-series amplifiers consisted of 'Capricorn', 'Scorpio', 'Taurus' and 'Libra' models.


Therefore, IMHO, the 1987 Red Knob Twin may have been the first Fender tube amp
to utilize PCBs. Open for updating. Wonder what the 1960s/1970s solid state amps
used for circuitry???

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:23 pm
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Here you go, swingville......

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First-generation transistorized Twin Reverb circa 1968.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:30 pm
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I think everything should be shut down. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:41 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Here you go, swingville......

Image

First-generation transistorized Twin Reverb circa 1968.

Arjay


I love how some people know how to quote, while others just know. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:58 pm
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bluesky636 wrote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Here you go, swingville......

Image

First-generation transistorized Twin Reverb circa 1968.

Arjay


I love how some people know how to quote, while others just know. :wink:



+1 Bill :lol:

T2

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:41 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
+1 Bill :lol:

T2


PM sent to you and Arjay.

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:29 pm
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I can dig the size of those traces on that '68 TR !!! Art

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:30 pm
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PM received, Bill.

The "gentleman" under discussion has quite the track record of unwarranted kibbutzing, no?

:lol:

He pulled the same mierda there as he did on the TDPRI group which got him unceremoniously booted from both forums.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Did any Vintage amps have PC boards?
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:50 pm
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So now that we have the question answered definitively have any of you fellas done any soldering on these boards and if you did what was your experience with them? The one pictured looks beefy enough to be reworked easily enough (thanks RJ) but looks can be deceiving. I read somewhere (I think it was in the Fender forums) of guys having a rough time reworking boards. My guess is simply inexperience with soldering, using a soldering gun on PC boards, not using heat sinks on components when soldering, etc. Of course PC boards can also be of poor quality which can make rework frustrating. I wanna know things like this before I get deeper into amps. I have a Peavey Renown 400 that's close to vintage. It's a 212 watt loud MOFO which I have done minor repairs to. The boards in it seem a little... eh... anemic. Anyway...

And since I have your attention fellas, if a tube is microphonic is it useless?

Thanks for your replies

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...I for one, sure would appreciate the return of intelligent conversation, spirit of assistance and the simple yet effective ignoring of those who can't seem to hang with that...
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