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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:32 am
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As for the EL84 Tremolux on eBay for $15K, that has been confirmed as an actual Fender amp and was an experiment by Leo back in the day.

Whether or not it's worth $15K is an entirely different and debatable question.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:37 am
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I seen that one there. I hate the cream knobs. 15K is crazy


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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:39 am
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I love the old vintage gear. I even like the way it smells when it gets hot. Has that musty vintage odor that certainly makes it sound better too....:)
Really though its all what you are into. I like the old gear because even if it sounds like crap I can make it sound great. I can't say the same for much of the modern stuff. But there is a lot of modern gear that sounds awesome. Most of it is the expensive stuff.
You can play a crap ss amp and a MIM strat and be happy. I cant.....that's just me.
My experience with modern amp gear is not that extensive. What I can say is the well made and thought out products sound and perform well. The cheap stuff is crap over all.
How many players say...." I love my MIM strat!! New pick ups, pots, and frets and and its perfect!!!". Not all but many say things like that.

Just because its old or vintage doesn't make it good but it is STILL old and vintage and thats good enough for me to check it out. Just because its new and modern does't mean much to me. Someday the gear of today will old anf vintage and much of it will be on the junk heap. What will be left will be the well made and desgned products which is the same for an any era. The good stuff lasts and the crap doesn't....


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Post subject: Re: C
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:20 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
Arc-n-spark wrote:
I guess I just can't let a post like this sit without a reply simply because it's negative and meant to agitate the forum members.
The opening post is aimed squarely at the most knowledgeable people in here and those who have a love for vintage amps. It is meant to anoy those very people and also those who collect vintage amps and those who are skilled enough to repair them for themselves and/or for income. I see this as an attempt to try to take these fine people down a notch and to sully the reputation that vintage era Fender amps have had for many decades without your opinion. Guess what? That ain't gonna happen. You lose.
The fact is that any line of amps from any manufacturer will have it's not so well loved products. Ya can't please all the people all the time.
To make comments about how well they keep working as compared to other kinds of amps is pointless as has been pointed out by the many posts of modern SS amps failing right out of the box. Tube amps fail, SS amps fail. So what?
I think more and more people are starting to see through your pettiness. Keep posting because it is my belief you will eventually be relieved of your presence here as you have been on other forums simply by being yourself. Once again please note that I have not insulted anyones intelligence or did any name calling.


Arc. You have missed the whole point. You have prejudged incorrectly.

Others agree with me so I don't think I missed a thing.

You pick and pull at what is not there. Did you not read?

I read every word.

Did you read the numerous ads pulled from the internet.

No need to because I was refering to your original post which is what I was commenting on. I think it's you who does not read.

Are you a vintage man only? No problem at all.
Are you a man who like modern and vintge? No problem at all.
Do you make wild claims? Doubt it.
You see the fine attemp as a coniving type of plan. Where do you think this up?

No need to think this up. I and others can see right through what you wrote

In fact this thread is not about any amp or vintage amps or Fender at all?

Watch for false claims as not all vintage amps are great. Oh Brother!
It is about false advertising claims. It is about those advertisers and sellers
who build up vintage amps at the cost of belittlement towards modern amps.
It is about those who start rumors or false claims that all modern amps fail,
are hard to work on, do not sound good, are not built well, etc.

I have not heard one person claim that about ALL modern amps

This thread is to wake up the market place that those selling amps for $5000(+)
and guitars for $10,000(+) have to make claims to build up their product for sale
at the expense of something else.

The market place? Then why post here? Because you wanted to shake up the forum members you don't like.

And frequently, that something else is "modern amps and modern guitars".

The point is to watch out for those that claim that because their product was made
before 1970, it must be great. But, yet Fender had bad products way back then.
I say, beware the claims of expensive amps and guitars.

Not all are great . . . . .

Yeah... No kidding

Ooooppps, that is the title of this very thread:
"Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT"

Anyway, Arc. Read the whole thread.

Did

Gotta make a comment, PM me.

No need to

But, no, you have to spout your negative opinion and indirect insults and
indirect negative comments towards me because you did not read all of the
threads, and you insert you opinion as fact and you disdain the opinions
of others that do not agree with yours.

That is absolute BS and you know it.

And, you did it without calling names.

Becasue you are sensitive to it and I'm not that sort of person as you prove time and time again that you are

Arc. Re-reading your comment, I cannot find one friendly sentence.
Just opinionated critical mass. Oooooppps, that is my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else


I hope this clears things up.

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Best regards,
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Post subject: Re: C
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:19 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Arc-n-spark wrote:
I guess I just can't let a post like this sit without a reply simply because it's negative and meant to agitate the forum members.
The opening post is aimed squarely at the most knowledgeable people in here and those who have a love for vintage amps. It is meant to anoy those very people and also those who collect vintage amps and those who are skilled enough to repair them for themselves and/or for income. I see this as an attempt to try to take these fine people down a notch and to sully the reputation that vintage era Fender amps have had for many decades without your opinion. Guess what? That ain't gonna happen. You lose.
The fact is that any line of amps from any manufacturer will have it's not so well loved products. Ya can't please all the people all the time.
To make comments about how well they keep working as compared to other kinds of amps is pointless as has been pointed out by the many posts of modern SS amps failing right out of the box. Tube amps fail, SS amps fail. So what?
I think more and more people are starting to see through your pettiness. Keep posting because it is my belief you will eventually be relieved of your presence here as you have been on other forums simply by being yourself. Once again please note that I have not insulted anyones intelligence or did any name calling.


Arc. You have missed the whole point. You have prejudged incorrectly.

Others agree with me so I don't think I missed a thing.

You pick and pull at what is not there. Did you not read?

I read every word.

Did you read the numerous ads pulled from the internet.

No need to because I was refering to your original post which is what I was commenting on. I think it's you who does not read.

Are you a vintage man only? No problem at all.
Are you a man who like modern and vintge? No problem at all.
Do you make wild claims? Doubt it.
You see the fine attemp as a coniving type of plan. Where do you think this up?

No need to think this up. I and others can see right through what you wrote

In fact this thread is not about any amp or vintage amps or Fender at all?

Watch for false claims as not all vintage amps are great. Oh Brother!
It is about false advertising claims. It is about those advertisers and sellers
who build up vintage amps at the cost of belittlement towards modern amps.
It is about those who start rumors or false claims that all modern amps fail,
are hard to work on, do not sound good, are not built well, etc.

I have not heard one person claim that about ALL modern amps

This thread is to wake up the market place that those selling amps for $5000(+)
and guitars for $10,000(+) have to make claims to build up their product for sale
at the expense of something else.

The market place? Then why post here? Because you wanted to shake up the forum members you don't like.

And frequently, that something else is "modern amps and modern guitars".

The point is to watch out for those that claim that because their product was made
before 1970, it must be great. But, yet Fender had bad products way back then.
I say, beware the claims of expensive amps and guitars.

Not all are great . . . . .

Yeah... No kidding

Ooooppps, that is the title of this very thread:
"Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT"

Anyway, Arc. Read the whole thread.

Did

Gotta make a comment, PM me.

No need to

But, no, you have to spout your negative opinion and indirect insults and
indirect negative comments towards me because you did not read all of the
threads, and you insert you opinion as fact and you disdain the opinions
of others that do not agree with yours.

That is absolute BS and you know it.

And, you did it without calling names.

Becasue you are sensitive to it and I'm not that sort of person as you prove time and time again that you are

Arc. Re-reading your comment, I cannot find one friendly sentence.
Just opinionated critical mass. Oooooppps, that is my opinion.

You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone else


I hope this clears things up.


Ark, you were VERY CLEAR the first time...it's just ol "Swingtime..a.k.a...Toppscore" only posts here to have something to do to fill up his obviously lonely existance. Reading his posts can give you whiplash, he is all over the place...not much coherancy within his posts

I am beginning to wonder if he even owns anything vintage, I have seen him post a bunch of pictures off of Ebay, but not once have we seen his whole collection in one shot...so I have decided to NOT reply to anything he posts...even if he responds to this one, which I am sure he will...but unless it is a pic of all of his gear in one PIC I will continue to ignore the troll. I politely suggest you do the same :wink:

T2

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:48 pm
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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:02 pm
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I'll do my best T.

Thanks.

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Best regards,
rob


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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:04 pm
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Posts: 2337
tbazzone wrote:
Topp I have more modern amps than I do vintage. I don't have a problem with anyone likeing what they like. I am not an amp collector like you. I don't think anyone here in the vintage section thinks all vintage amps are great. Just I feel this post was ment to start an argument which is not needed.


Honestly, this thread was meant to bring out false claims and or "way-out" advertising.
Not that no one notices the extreme ads, but what about those sellers who make them?
And, what those ads do to others, the market place, how those ads directly or indirectly
affect modern guitars & amps, as well as buyers of older guitars & amps.

And maybe nobody within this forum thinks all of one type of guitar or amp is all bad.
But, within this vintage forum we have seen posts that old is good, old is easy to work on,
modern is bad, modern is junk, modern has PCB boards that are hard to repair, modern
cannot sound like old, etc etc etc. I could go on, but there are comments throughout
this forum's threads that directly or indirectly build up vintage and put down modern.
Again, not everyone makes back-handed remarks, just a few.

In the bigger picture, not every seller is off-base, just a few.
I presented several EBay ads by searching for "holy grail guitar" or "holy grail amp".
We could find more if we searched for "rarest" "greatest" "only one of it's kind" etc.

I saw a comment here that a good thread would be to discuss the vintage "disasters"
or the unpopular guitars & amps or even bad experiences we learned from. Also, there
have been commenters within this thread that agree with the outlandish situation that
encompasses the vintage market, including advertising claims, pricing, all vintage is
great, vintage tone is unsurpassed, etc.

I am sorry that some disagree. That some do not ask my intentions,
then make up their own issue or focus or opinion.

Tbazzone, thanks for your comment. Toppscore.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:13 pm
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Posts: 2337
phansford wrote:
Personally I am done. Topper doesn't want to discuss Vintage Fender Amps. I have to agree with Arc-n-spark statements. Very accurate and well-staed. No need to feed the trolls.

Phansford. I do want to discuss vintage Fender amps.
Again, I believe the vintage amp market is becoming like a used car market.
False or embellished advertising claims.
Sellers who throw out high prices and settle for half that amount.
How this "negative" part of the vintage amp market affects the entire vintage amp market,
the buyers of vintage gear, other sellers of vintage gear, how vintage gear is priced,
and the building up of vintage amps & guitars at the expense of modern amps & guitars.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:13 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
BMW2002Ti wrote:
Topp, think we get the "beware of false advertising." Thanks. But you know... If you guys would brag about your girlfriends and wives the way you talk about your amps and guitars. What about these women? Photo evidence please! For us lonely boys. Wait, that's for another board, another time... sorry, the Devil made me do it.


Actually, I used this quote from Dr J Vernon McGee's series, "Thru the Bible".
One day Dr McGee says he was walking down a block in the city with his grandson
and was about to go around a corner when he suddenly stopped and held his grandson
back. Dr McGee over heard an adult woman seriously verbally throwing an embarrassing
amount of verbal love and excitedly expressing her love and passion. A bit embarrassing
for the Preaching Grandfather to explain to his young Grandson.

Turns out the excited woman was holding up a small Poodle and sharing her love :lol: :lol:
But, the point Dr McGee made was that if all women talked to their husbands like they
typically communicate with their pets, there would be no divorces or unhappy marriages.
Pretty good stuff.

My analogy was towards the many musicians I've known (of course not you & not all)
who spend more time on their hobby than they do with family and friends.
I heard a great comment two years ago when I asked how my friend's wife allows
for him to spend all the money & time on his guitars, drums and turning his single family
home into a recording studio. He told me, "at least my wife knows I am staying home
and not out-and-about". :lol: :lol: Real cool response.

Following is a poster from his website. I only have eleven guitars, he has over 100.
So, he and a photographer buddy shot photos of all 100 guitars to make this poster:
Image
There are actually 99. I was the only one to locate the duplicate guitar. Can you :?:
Now, he has to be more OCD than I am with guitars & amps :shock:
But, it works for him. He stays home when not performing. Has a happy family life.

On the other hand, I have/had three musician friends who are no longer with us as
they shortened their own lives through depression, manic illness, and substance abuse.
So, balance is a big deal. Personally, I need to work on balance as a lifestyle. Dr says . . .

The comment about bragging about girlfriends or wives like some brag about
vintage amps and guitars (of course not you, and not many in this forum),
may hit home for some and reassure others.

How does that happen? Forums are a big part of the issues some may have.
We put certain guitars or amps or "tones" on the highly desired list (some do, not all).
The some of us (me included) seek and save and search just for that perfect amp/guitar.
Am I right?

Then, we procure that highly desired item. We brag and share and seek confirmation.
It has been said three times earlier within this thread that you can't take the instruments
with you and that the vintage instruments degrade overtime.

It's the "building up" of these vintage amps/guitars that generate desires & motivation
for people like me to hunt and seek for more than is reasonable. I have a ton of vintage
"amp heads" just to cover the reason that my hobby is creating new sounds. But,
I really do like winning that bid, or seeking the great buy a local shops, I like the "hunt".
Anyway, that is me & my issues. I did the same with martial arts, collecting health books,
and buying music books & CDs.

So, for me (I'm sure for many) the false advertisers, outlandish vintage amp/guitar ads
and the extreme prices do affect us all. Some of us may seek that "holy grail" of an
amp or guitar. Some of us put the equipment on a high podium, or photograph a shrine
of their collections, and maybe sometimes at the expense of more important things.

Again, for me, this thread was published to not only
"Watch-out for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT",
but to "watch out" for ourselves. Toppscore :)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: C
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:14 pm
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T2Stratman wrote:
Ark, you were VERY CLEAR the first time...it's just ol "Swingtime..a.k.a...Toppscore" only posts here to have something to do to fill up his obviously lonely existance. Reading his posts can give you whiplash, he is all over the place...not much coherancy within his posts

I am beginning to wonder if he even owns anything vintage, I have seen him post a bunch of pictures off of Ebay, but not once have we seen his whole collection in one shot...so I have decided to NOT reply to anything he posts...even if he responds to this one, which I am sure he will...but unless it is a pic of all of his gear in one PIC I will continue to ignore the troll. I politely suggest you do the same :wink:


+1

It is amazing that despite swingville's alleged financial wherewithal, he doesn't seem to own a decent camera.

"You wanna play 'lumberjack', you better be prepared to handle logs."

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:15 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
tbazzone wrote:
Why not just post what were some of the worst amps from before 1980. Im sure there were alot of them. I can't remember all the bad ones I had I can only remember the good ones.


I think this is a great idea. Will help buyes, sellers and advertisers.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:19 pm
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Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:29 am
Posts: 4238
Location: Pgh Pa
Toppscore wrote:
BMW2002Ti wrote:
Topp, think we get the "beware of false advertising." Thanks. But you know... If you guys would brag about your girlfriends and wives the way you talk about your amps and guitars. What about these women? Photo evidence please! For us lonely boys. Wait, that's for another board, another time... sorry, the Devil made me do it.


Actually, I used this quote from Dr J Vernon McGee's series, "Thru the Bible".
One day Dr McGee says he was walking down a block in the city with his grandson
and was about to go around a corner when he suddenly stopped and held his grandson
back. Dr McGee over heard an adult woman seriously verbally throwing an embarrassing
amount of verbal love and excitedly expressing her love and passion. A bit embarrassing
for the Preaching Grandfather to explain to his young Grandson.

Turns out the excited woman was holding up a small Poodle and sharing her love :lol: :lol:
But, the point Dr McGee made was that if all women talked to their husbands like they
typically communicate with their pets, there would be no divorces or unhappy marriages.
Pretty good stuff.

My analogy was towards the many musicians I've known (of course not you & not all)
who spend more time on their hobby than they do with family and friends.
I heard a great comment two years ago when I asked how my friend's wife allows
for him to spend all the money & time on his guitars, drums and turning his single family
home into a recording studio. He told me, "at least my wife knows I am staying home
and not out-and-about". :lol: :lol: Real cool response.

Following is a poster from his website. I only have eleven guitars, he has over 100.
So, he and a photographer buddy shot photos of all 100 guitars to make this poster:
Image
There are actually 99. I was the only one to locate the duplicate guitar. Can you :?:
Now, he has to be more OCD than I am with guitars & amps :shock:
But, it works for him. He stays home when not performing. Has a happy family life.

On the other hand, I have/had three musician friends who are no longer with us as
they shortened their own lives through depression, manic illness, and substance abuse.
So, balance is a big deal. Personally, I need to work on balance as a lifestyle. Dr says . . .

So, the comment about bragging about girlfriends or wives like some brag about
vintage amps and guitars (of course not you, and not many in this forum), may hit
home for some and reassure others.

How does that happen. Forums are a big part of the OCD issues some may have.
We put certain guitars or amps or "tones" on the highly desired list (some do, not all).
The some of us (me included) seek and save and search just for that perfect amp/guitar.
Am I right?

Then, we procure the highly desired item. We brag and share and seek confirmation.
It has been said three times earlier within this thread that you can't take the instruments
with you and that the vintage instruments degrade overtime.

It's the "building up" of these vintage amps/guitars that generate desires & motivation
for people like me to hunt and seek for more than is reasonable. I'be a ton of vintage
"amp heads" just to cover the reason that my hobby is creating new sounds. But,
I really do like winning that bid, or seeking the great buy a local shops, I like the "hunt".
Anyway, that is me & my issues. I did the same with martial arts, collecting health books,
and buying music books & CDs.

So, for me (I'm sure for many) the false advertisers, outlandish vintage amp/guitar ads
and the extreme prices do affect us all. Some of us may seek that "holy grail" of an
amp or guitar. Some of us put the equipment on a high podium, or photograph a shrine
of their collections, and maybe sometimes at the expense of more important things.

Again, for me, this thread to not only
"Watch-out for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT",
and to "watch out" for ourselves. Toppscore :)

Wow what was I thinking


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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:22 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
mxvin wrote:
I love the old vintage gear. I even like the way it smells when it gets hot. Has that musty vintage odor that certainly makes it sound better too....:)
Really though its all what you are into. I like the old gear because even if it sounds like crap I can make it sound great. I can't say the same for much of the modern stuff. But there is a lot of modern gear that sounds awesome. Most of it is the expensive stuff.
You can play a crap ss amp and a MIM strat and be happy. I cant.....that's just me.
My experience with modern amp gear is not that extensive. What I can say is the well made and thought out products sound and perform well. The cheap stuff is crap over all.
How many players say...." I love my MIM strat!! New pick ups, pots, and frets and and its perfect!!!". Not all but many say things like that. Just because its old or vintage doesn't make it good but it is STILL old and vintage and thats good enough for me to check it out. Just because its new and modern does't mean much to me. Someday the gear of today will old anf vintage and much of it will be on the junk heap. What will be left will be the well made and desgned products which is the same for an any era. The good stuff lasts and the crap doesn't....


Thanks, Mxvin. I enjoy vintage and modern amps/guitars as well.
Of course there are good and bad from all eras and products and manufacturers.

Sorry, I was not clear that this thread is not about the amps/guitars,
but about those few who advertise in false or outlandish ways.

This thread is supposed to be how those ads and claims may or may not affect the
many aspects of the vintage amp/guitar market, the modern amp/guitar market,
those who buy and sell, and possibly how ultimately some of our lives are affected.
Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: C
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:24 pm
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Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 3:16 am
Posts: 2337
Arc-n-spark wrote:
I hope this clears things up.


OK, Arc. I am clear. Toppscore :)

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