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Post subject: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT!
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:45 pm
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8) All amps and guitars product lines have issues.
I have read numerous time that this guitar or that amp is not good
or you will experience an issue or you'll never get your money out of it.

IMHO, IT IS NOT GOOD to push off-to-the-side a whole line of amps or guitars
because of an opinion or what you may have heard or read or seen or touched.
All the writers, players and complainers each only see or feel or experience
a small tiny percentage of any amp or guitar line.

The worst offenders are the amp repair techs or those
who work on an amp and believe they know it all.


Also, amp/guitar collectors & owners are the most super opinionated (IMHO )
gossiping rumor spreading babblers known within The Fender Kingdom.

The repair techs or those who mess around upon amps, share what they've experienced,
right or wrong, and try to make their opinion or experience to be like it is
"FACT FOR ALL THE FENDER AMPS"

Vintage amp owners and vintage amp collectors are even worse.
Ever seen an ad for a vintage guitar or amp THAT DID NOT STATE:
"this amp is the greatest tone sounding piece of electronics since Thomas Edison"
"this is the most fantastic & versatile two pickup, 3-switch six-string guitar ever made"

All vintage guitar/amp owners KNOW their axe or speaker box is the greatest thing since the can opener.
Nothing can be better than their AB763. Not even the AA763 or AC568.
Not even the Blackface or Blonde can compare with their Silverfaces. And . . . .
OH MY GOD, BRUCE ZINKY or PAUL RIVERA TOUCHED THIS HOLY GRAIL OF AN AMP :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Come on, GUITAR and AMP World!!!

Leo Fender put out a ton of great products through the Blackface era.
Was Fender PERFECT under Leo?
Leo's Fender company did have it's share of bad production runs, returns, recalls,
sloppy QC moments, lazy employees that were fired, poor vendors, etc etc etc.
Fender had it's issues as well as any modern amp manufacturer then and now.

But, ALL vintage amp owners and vintage amp collectors claim:
100% of ALL EVERYTHING Pre-1990 FENDER was made with
the Left-Hand-of-God and blessed by the Trinity Themselves :!: :!: :!: Am I RIGHT :?: :?: :?:


To all the owners of Vintage Amps & Guitars, some of you have bad amps & bad guitars
that would not "pass the sound grade test" way back then; yet, because of it's
"year of production", some owners claim your amps & guitars are perfect or great.
Buyers, beware. Save your money.

There are tons of great Fender Amps and Fender Guitars made since 1990.
Personally, currently I own a 1954 Tweed Bassman 4x10, many 1960s Brownface,
Blondes, Blackface & Silverface amps. I've owned 1970/80 Fender American Strat/Teles.

But, I am having a blast with my 1994-2011 Stratocasters, Telecasters & Amps by Fender.
No matter whether MIM or MIA or Fender PartsMonsters

The Fender Supersonic Series ~ very cool combination of tube & solid state electronics.
The G-DEC-Thirty 30w has awesome electronics. IMHO = 2011 amp of the year.
The Fender Cyber Twin = nothing like it's power and tone options.
The 1994 Fender Tone Master 2x12 = Top of the line "Zinky Built" amp known to Fender
The 2009 Fender FM100H = 100w of pure Solid State Raw Power and SS Tone. Nice

Also, gotta give lots of love to modern MIA/MIM Strats & Telecasters with tons of options:
wiring, in/out phase switching, varitone switching, Lace Sensor pickups, humbuckers,
tuners, tremolo & bridge systems, push/pull switching, etc.

Please share why "Vintage" is the best or why "modern" is cool. Thanks.

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:00 pm
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Thanks Toppscore, you have hit the mark.
I was only born in 1977 and only became musicaly interested in 1993, so for me the itch of finding that amaizing pre 1980 gear does not exist as I was not around then to form an opinion about it. I buy what to me currently sounds and feels good, like my Supersonic Twin and Lee Ranaldo Jazzy, and I am more than content with that gear. Maybe in 30 years time I will be longing for what I have now, but maybe not. We can't keep living in the past, and even the best of vintage amps won't stand the test of time eventualy, as EVERYTHING degrades. Perhaps that is why some people are making the best of thier vintage gear now, because it might not last another 100 years or so. Music and sound and feel are all based on personal perception, so if you dig that vintage amp or guitar, ITS ALL GOOD. I have just chosen gear that is current and availible because I like it. I have no desire to find an old amp, and the modern stuff is extremely good.

So I say MODERN IS COOL, we have got to move forward sometime.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:10 pm
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AaronK wrote:
Thanks Toppscore, you have hit the mark.
I was only born in 1977 and only became musicaly interested in 1993, so for me the itch of finding that amaizing pre 1980 gear does not exist as I was not around then to form an opinion about it. I buy what to me currently sounds and feels good, like my Supersonic Twin and Lee Ranaldo Jazzy, and I am more than content with that gear. Maybe in 30 years time I will be longing for what I have now, but maybe not. We can't keep living in the past, and even the best of vintage amps won't stand the test of time eventualy, as EVERYTHING degrades. Perhaps that is why some people are making the best of thier vintage gear now, because it might not last another 100 years or so. Music and sound and feel are all based on personal perception, so if you dig that vintage amp or guitar, ITS ALL GOOD. I have just chosen gear that is current and availible because I like it. I have no desire to find an old amp, and the modern stuff is extremely good.

So I say MODERN IS COOL, we have got to move forward sometime.

How do you like the Jazz Master? I was just offered a 1971 Jazz Master
for my 1964 Fender Tuxedo Bassman, one of my 1963 Fender Reverb Tanks
and something else. He claimed a $3000 value for the 1971 Jazz Master,
but I was not digging $3000 out of that old guitar, and really did not want to part
with equipment that took time to procure.

I'm thinking of getting a 2012 "HH" Jaguar.
Jaguars and Jazz Masters are similar enough, but the 2012 Classic HH Jaguars
are nice MIM's at a great price. Man, I am not feelin' vintage guitars with today's prices.
Like I stated in my thread, you just cannot customize them or you'll mess with some
perceived origional quality or antique value.

Gosh, are we having fun with modified modern axes or what???


*** BTW. Was not 1971 the "Eight Track Generation" :?: :shock: :roll: :mrgreen: :wink: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:49 am
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AaronK wrote:
So I say MODERN IS COOL, we have got to move forward sometime.


Repeat that often enough and you might even convince yourself.

These amps need no alibi......

Image

They've already outlived several miserable generations of "new" and "improved" junk.

And when your Super-Duper-Sonic begins that sad, final journey to the local landfill, they'll still be earning their keep.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:48 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Was Fender PERFECT under Leo?
Leo's Fender company did have it's share of bad production runs, returns, recalls,
sloppy QC moments, lazy employees that were fired, poor vendors, etc etc etc.
Fender had it's issues as well as any modern amp manufacturer then and now.


Maybe. But have you ever tried soldering one of these green pre-printed circuit boards? Have you ever tried finding a broken part in a modern amp?

If you have, you'll understand why vintage is better. You can go to the original circuitry and simply fix it. So even if you were right with QC, it's a non-issue. Even my Fender Princeton from 1966 had a resistor which was out of spec, probably from the beginning. I just soldered a a correct one and measured it.

Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 2:03 am
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Hey Man, if modern is cool for you, then that's great! If the older vintage gear is our groove, then, that's our choice! You are your own sonic judge! The ability of the equipment to withstand the years of use, would yet to be seen. Happy Pickin'!!! Art

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:13 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
AaronK wrote:
So I say MODERN IS COOL, we have got to move forward sometime.

Repeat that often enough and you might even convince yourself.
These amps need no alibi......
They've already outlived several miserable generations of "new" and "improved" junk. And when your Super-Duper-Sonic begins that sad, final journey to the local landfill, they'll still be earning their keep. :lol: :lol: :lol: Arjay


Yeah Yeah Yeah. I have both old and new.
For my "single minded mind set", the vintage works.
For my "creative side of whatever amount of brain I have left", the modern amps work.

So, you are the perfect vote for "vintage".

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:54 am
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I was born in 59, started playing in 71. Half the reason I like vintage gear is because of memories, nostalgia, emotion. Vintage makes me happy :D


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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:02 am
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Amerigo wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Was Fender PERFECT under Leo? Leo's Fender company did have it's share of bad production runs, returns, recalls, sloppy QC moments, lazy employees that were fired, poor vendors, etc etc etc. Fender had it's issues as well as any modern amp manufacturer then and now.
Maybe. But have you ever tried soldering one of these green pre-printed circuit boards? Have you ever tried finding a broken part in a modern amp? If you have, you'll understand why vintage is better. You can go to the original circuitry and simply fix it. So even if you were right with QC, it's a non-issue. Even my Fender Princeton from 1966 had a resistor which was out of spec, probably from the beginning. I just soldered a a correct one and measured it. Cheers, David
David, you have me there. I have not soldered an amp together or apart.
I leave soldering to those dedicated "Fender Lover" technicians. Not up my alley.
Some of those guys are incredible with their knowledge and suggestions.

I'd rather play.

Honestly, I've not had any break downs on the modern amps = ZERO!

But, let's see.
* My 1954, had a checkup.
* My 1962 1x12 Super Amp had a checkup.
* My 1963 Tremolux has vibrato issues uncorrected. The repair's not worth the
gain of repair costs towards correcting resistors/capacitors drifted from spec,
corrected minor motorboarding.
* My 1968 Bandmaster Reverb has new Mercury power & output transformers,
corrected severe motorboarding
* My 1968 Showman Reverb had caps replaced, had severe motorboarding corrected
* My 1984 Twin Reverb had a broken lead connector and two broken tubes.
* There are others.

Bottom line, old amps break down.

For most of you lovers of oldies and haters of newbies,
the rumor that all modern amps are trouble came from the
same slick sales shark who sold you a Princeton for $12K
and that Deluxe Reverb for $15k.

I'm sure some modern amps will break down. I have not seen one.

Saw someone's 1946 & 1948 Fender amps that are so fragile,
he'll not play them at all. Why? They will break down.

How many of you have old fragile vintage amps, but keep them home with
the wives while going to gigs with those "cruddy old reliable" NEWER amps?
Why, because your dainty delicate femme soft vintage amps will get hurt.
I know, you say to your friends, the dust collectors are my vintage amps,
and the nice ones are my gigging amps. Right?

Hey, you are going to die. The amp will break down. Music will change.
Women will stay away. Your fingers & wrists will wear out . . . .
Play those "Model A" & "Model T" dainty vintage amps BEFORE you turn to dust :lol: :lol: :lol:

Soon, I am going to video all of my vintage amps being dimed out.
Played at least to their top maxed out speaker volume.
What can happen? An old speaker blows ~ oooooohhhhh nnnnnoooooo!

It is like buying new tires. Changing that 1954 Ford's oil.
Giving that 1957 Chevy a needed Tweed job, oh, I mean a needed paint job.
. . . . And then when those vintage speakers blow, I can finally replace those old
worn out tires with new tread (er I mean those old fragile speakers) with new modern
speakers, or I'll recone those speakers so I can REALLY crank those vintage amps out
the WAY THEY WERE MEANT TO SHATTER your one room flat's windows. AM I RIGHT???

I swear, some of you vintage lovers think that old and ratted out is cool.
Used and worn means "original". Try letting your house and lawns go to heck.
Your local city will trash your house and cut your weeds down.
But dragging around a ratted out covered piece of wood with torn ragged tweed, is cool.

Wanna by my old rusted out 1964 & 1/2 Ford Mustang? It is all original.
Never changed the oil. Original tires, with holes and some tread dangling.
It is a user/worker car, so the seat springs are all that's left. The steering wheel
works just fine, but do not turn it. Paint? ~ corrosion is proof ths M'stang is original.
You will never find a 100% original 1964 Mustang like this one. It really actually runs.
Also, listen to that great "tone"' coming out of the muffler :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

OK. Here is to the OLD and the NEW.
My vote = 1/2 for the dust collectors and 1/2 for the fun amps.
Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:32 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
AaronK wrote:
So I say MODERN IS COOL, we have got to move forward sometime.


Repeat that often enough and you might even convince yourself.

These amps need no alibi......

Image

They've already outlived several miserable generations of "new" and "improved" junk.

And when your Super-Duper-Sonic begins that sad, final journey to the local landfill, they'll still be earning their keep.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay


There is no denying your Vintage gear is reliable, and has been kept running well for along time, but yours weren't the only ones made, where are the rest of them. I presume alot of even the vintage ones like yours made it to the landfill. I am skilled enough to keep my Supersonic Running for years to come as I have the knowledge to fault find modern PCB design and to be able to replace whatever eventualy gives out, (and by the way the Supersonic looks like it was designed to be repairable if need be - hand wired tube sockets and single sided PCB's with modulized layout, leaded components - even the autobias can be replaced with a manual pot should I need to). So my SS could last 60 years too if I want it to. I am curious though Arjay, is one Vintage amp not good enough that you need to have oh so many? Eventualy we all die, humans and gear alike. So vintage amps from the "Glory" years will dwindle down to nothing and the populas will have to buy something. Who is going to take your amps when you die Arjay? the next owner may not have the same ideals as you, then there goes another amp to the landfill. Arjay the way I see it it is wonderful that you cherish those amps while they are still around, but they are not for me. And I don't need any convincing of that! oh and time does'nt stand still so we are moving forward whether we like it or not!

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:40 am
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Toppscore wrote:
[/b]
How do you like the Jazz Master? I was just offered a 1971 Jazz Master
for my 1964 Fender Tuxedo Bassman, one of my 1963 Fender Reverb Tanks
and something else. He claimed a $3000 value for the 1971 Jazz Master,
but I was not digging $3000 out of that old guitar, and really did not want to part
with equipment that took time to procure.

I'm thinking of getting a 2012 "HH" Jaguar.
Jaguars and Jazz Masters are similar enough, but the 2012 Classic HH Jaguars
are nice MIM's at a great price. Man, I am not feelin' vintage guitars with today's prices.
Like I stated in my thread, you just cannot customize them or you'll mess with some
perceived origional quality or antique value.

Gosh, are we having fun with modified modern axes or what???


*** BTW. Was not 1971 the "Eight Track Generation" :?: :shock: :roll: :mrgreen: :wink: :lol: [/quote]

Hi Topscore

Yeah my modern jazzmaster is great, it doesn't play like a Strat so I had to change the way I play slightly, but I am perfectly happy with it, and it is me. I also just don't like buying old gear because it was'nt me who got to be its first owner to make it old and worn.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:59 am
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To Arjay and all other Vintage amp lovers. There is no disrespect meant in any of my posts towards you guys. Even though I am a "modern" guy, it is a god send to have you guys with technical knowledge of the history and design of Valve amps. The roots of fender amps is as much as important as the direction that the modern amp design is going in.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:07 am
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Old amps break down as surly as old cars break down. If they are not maintained properly.

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:36 am
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Amerigo wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
Was Fender PERFECT under Leo?
Leo's Fender company did have it's share of bad production runs, returns, recalls,
sloppy QC moments, lazy employees that were fired, poor vendors, etc etc etc.
Fender had it's issues as well as any modern amp manufacturer then and now.

Maybe. But have you ever tried soldering one of these green pre-printed circuit boards? Have you ever tried finding a broken part in a modern amp? If you have, you'll understand why vintage is better. You can go to the original circuitry and simply fix it. So even if you were right with QC, it's a non-issue. Even my Fender Princeton from 1966 had a resistor which was out of spec, probably from the beginning. I just soldered a a correct one and measured it. Cheers David


Soldering and repairing is not for me. I may try it some day.
I'd rather be playing and making money and practicing and relaxing.
Good hobby for some.

Actually, I have a commitment to learn to set bias and solder some capacitors.
Wanna learn. I purchased a soldering kit with a solder pump and a nice multimeter.
But, if I never do, not the end of the world.

I know some great amp & guitar repair techs. Some are totally Fender Freaks.
I'd rather let them do the major emergency surgerys. Their suggestions & ideas are cool.
They have earned the right to be paid. I'd rather be hanging out with the lady,
than stuck in my garage stressed out ~ hahaha :lol:

You know, just because vintage might be easier to work on, that is just one point.
Seems there are three groups of amp owners.
1) Those that love vintage amps and disregard modern amps
2) Those that love both vintage and modern amps
3) Those that stick to the newer amps

I like both eras.
I own plenty of amps from both eras.
I have a problem with those who disrespect the product from other eras
with an attitude that their opinion is right and everybody else is wrong.

I consider the older amps as amps with good tones but with minimal flexibility.
I consider modern amps as amps with good tones but with trememdous flexibility.
Just my opinion.

All eras (vintge and modern) have had good and bad product.
How is that Fender Bronco doing?

Basically, today nobody will alter a vintage amp or vintage guitar.

I will bet everything I own that Keith Richard's Fender Twin's
speakers have been both reconed and/or replaced. Am I right?

I will be everything I own that Jimi Hendrix added a strap button
and reversed his string nut on his 1969 Fender Stratocaster.
Maybe Hendrix even added some custom pickups?
Maybe a better tremolo to help stay in tune??? Am I right?

Find anyone who just paid $10,000 for a 1959 Fender Twin who will
remove the 1959 speakers and put in some hot Electro Voice speakers???
Will ANYONE change out a vintage amp's speakers to become a player amp?

Find anyone who owns a vintage $25,000 1969 Fender Stratocaster and ask them
to simply reverse the nut, flip the Strat and add an strap button on the small horn.
Will they do it? NEVER!

But, with modern gear, you can easily have fun.

To share a point, I sold a couple of vintage amps and all of my vintage guitars.
Then, I bought lots of modern guitars so I can add humbuckers, varitone switching,
Bigsby tremolo, locking tuners, in/out of phase switching, push/pull electronics, etc.

Talking about Jimi Hendrix, I purchased the following 2011 LEFT-HANDED Fender American Stratocaster:
Image

Image
. . . . . just so I can flip the Stratocaster Hendrix style,
add a strap button to the small horn,
flip the nut
and add the following pickups:
http://www.guitarfetish.com/Jimi-Reverse-Stagger-Alnico-Premium-Pickup-Set_p_441.html
. . . . which will arrive tomorrow. The transformation is a week away :shock:

Would anyone who owns a 1969 Fender Stratocaster have some Jimi Hendrix fun?
PLMK when you find that person. Toppscore :lol:

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Post subject: Re: Watch for False Claims as NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:46 am
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aclempoppi wrote:
Hey Man, if modern is cool for you, then that's great! If the older vintage gear is our groove, then, that's our choice! You are your own sonic judge! The ability of the equipment to withstand the years of use, would yet to be seen. Happy Pickin'!!! Art


Hey, Art!
Modern is cool 8)
Vintage grooves :wink:
It all works for me :D

Just watch out for false claims from vintage amp owners.
Some of them changed careers form used car salesmen to the music retail industry :lol:
They cannot ALL be the best. Only one is the best.

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