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Post subject: High Definition Tone
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:56 am
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Hey guys. Been playing my amps with the vintage reverb unit I recently picked up. Your opinions on dwell, mix, tone settings helped me find a nice starting point from which to experiment.

While I was experimenting with the reverb I was trying it out between my amps and I really noticed a difference in the definition of the sound coming from the 2 amps. They are a late 70's silverface vibrochamp (which I like, but seems to have less definition or like a flatter sound) and a 2002 Victoria 20112 (5E3 circuit). The Vic seems to have a much more rich palate of tones that come out of it (using the same guitar on pretty much the same settings). I know this is difficult to quantify, but what do you think contributes to the enhanced sound definition of one amp over another? I have a few thoughts (The lead dressing is pretty impeccable in the Vic vs the inside of the champ is sort of messy. Also the Vic has a larger/higher quality speaker and NOS tubes) but I'd like to hear from the guys who have been playing these sorts of amps for years.


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:23 am
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Yeah s3, I also use a stand alone reverb unit, although it's a Weber 5G15. With my 5 watt Valco, I adjust the tone control pretty high. The Valco is a 1955 and kind of dark sounding. For my mid 60 Fenders, I adjust the tone back down. The dwell and mix are pretty much up to your tastes. I'd start at "3", on both, and go from there. It's all your call!!! Art

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:34 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
For my mid 60 Fenders, I adjust the tone back down. The dwell and mix are pretty much up to your tastes. I'd start at "3", on both, and go from there. It's all your call!!!


+1

The 6G15 behaves differently depending upon what amp it's wired to. Sonically, the blackfaces (and silverfaces) are somewhat bright and the reverb tank's tone control might be used only minimally. OTOH the brownfaces and tweeds are somewhat darker sounding and the tank's tone control can be milked up accordingly.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:47 pm
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s3mamill, Run a tall Sylvania black plate 6K6GT. This tube is much brighter than the RCA. And a Mullard or Brimar CV4024 for the 12AT7.

http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aas0031.htm

http://thetubestore.com/mul12atcv.html


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:16 am
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S3, Arjay and BMW really know the deal, with these reverb units!!! I use a Pope 6K6GT, JAN GE 12AT7, and a Mullard 12AX7A. Again, my guy is just a 6G15 Weber knock-off. Happy Tweakin'!!! Art

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:31 pm
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Beem, this is the 6k6 I have in there now. Not sure if its the sylvania you're talking about.
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I think it sounds a little better than the RCA that was in it. I assume this is fixed bais and I could just plug and play?

I like the unit a bunch. I would use the reverb on my DRRI a little, but I never found it that inspiring or interesting. Maybe thats just the drawback of "one knob" reverb. I wasn't sure how the reverb unit would incorporate in to my "sound" but I like the way it fills things out and the echo/decay enhances things in an interesting way.


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:57 pm
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s3mamill, I run the slightly taller Sylvania BP. The Unit is cathode-biased, Class "A." So no bias adjustment needed (like the old Champs and VC's).

For some odd reason (an old tech told me it's the dimension of the glass)-- a bottle with a bigger envelope has a bigger (more headroom), brighter tone. Like the old coke bottle 6L6GA's versus the straight bottle 6L6GC. Or the 5U4G or 6V6G coke bottles versus newer straight bottles. I know it all sounds crazy. But heck, most ppl think we are crazy-@ss fools for dealing with tube amps, in this day-&-age. :mrgreen:

BTW-- notice the Sylvania 12AT7WA and the Holy Munich-made Siemens E83CC (these and the Berlin Valvos are crazy good tubes)? I rolled a bunch of tubes to get the right tone and response. And this is the best I could come up with, from my arsenal.

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:12 pm
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Cool, Beemer, I'll keep a eye out for the taller tube and good tip on the glass size.

Random question: In your photo I noticed the outlet on the back of the amp the reverb unit is sitting on (a princeton?). I had one on a bassman head I owned and have seen them on them on others (actually there is one on the reverb unit too). Were they intended for the reverb units to plug into? If not, do you know their purpose?


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:59 pm
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I use the Reverb Unit on ANY amp that has no built-in reverb. The 6G15 is WICKED-@SS good on my '62 Pro. And my tweed Champ.

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:45 am
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S3, The courtesy AC outlet was certainly intended to supply power to an out board unit, be it reverb, a light, or a fan. You know, the tubes are really neat to mess with! Like Beemer said," it's a little Class A amp". It reacts quite well to different tubes. I've swapped a lot of different tubes, in all positions. Just landed in a nice spot with those tubes , I spoke of earlier. Have Fun! Art

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Last edited by aclempoppi on Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:28 am
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Nice photos Beem! Thanks for tips guys.


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:56 am
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s3mamill, one other little tip. You want a bit better high frequency shimmer off your unit? Try replacing the 0.00025 mfd between the tone and mixer pots with a good quality 250 pico-farad silver mica cap. You can see it on the photo. Peaking out with the teflon insulation between the tone and mixer pots.

I like Miconics. It's important to get good ones. As the cheaper ones tend to break-down (chemically) and fail. I get them from Parts Connexion:

Good luck with that unit. Really a nice addition to the family.

http://www.partsconnexion.com/capacitor ... rmica.html

http://www.webphix.com/schematic%20heav ... _schem.pdf

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 4:50 am
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Beemer, do you need to mention the 1meg on the 12AX7 ? Art

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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:43 am
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Art, I think I did. This is the brownface 6G15 Reverb Unit, correct? In any event, I put a 1-meg ohm grid-to-ground resistor onto pin 2 of the 12AX7 (7025). This help stabilize the idle bias and prevent thermal runaway.

The 1-meg ohm resistor can be seen in the photo from pin 2 to a grounding point on the pedal jack. Lower right side of photo showing the silver mica cap. 1-meg ohm is a nice value, as it doesn't effect the overall tone as much as say a lower resistance (like 470k-ohm) in this part of the circuit. As long as you keep the 12AX7 (7025) in this position (or a similar duo-triode with similar internal impedance character).


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Post subject: Re: High Definition Tone
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:40 pm
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Thanks again for the info guys! I'm not an experienced solderer, so I'll run these suggestions by my tech when I bring it to him to change the caps.

One more questions: Does the unit need to have anything plugged into the input or output to keep the circuit balanced, like an amp needs the speaker plugged in to keep it safe?


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