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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:12 pm
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phansford wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
1982-1983 The Champ II = 1x10"
1982-1985 The Super Champ = 1x10
1987-1992 The Champ 12 = 1x12
The Super and Champ II are Rivera-era amps. The Champ 12 has some issues - I think it had a plastic input jack that was easily damaged. The smaller amps are not just "student" amps - Champs and Princetons were/are used for recording. It wasn't only Clapton on Layla. Think about it.... how bad do you want to be in a small padded room with a 100 watt head and a stack. It is pretty well documented that Jimmy Page was using small Supro/Valco amps on those early Zeppelin albums and Richards has talked about using tweed Champs on many of the Stones albums.


No biggie. Just wondering. As I stated earlier, I was in hot persuit of the Champ 12,
so I remember there are Fender Champs with bigger speakers than eight inch Champs.

As far as Clapton and Layla and an eight inch vintage Fender Champ,
I am going to do hot recorded new interpretations and personal recreations of:
Free Bird
Stairway to Heaven
Statesboro Blues
I'm Going Home (Ten Years After)
Sympathy For The Devil . . . .
all on my 6.5" Pignose Hog-20w . . . . Hot Little Tone Monster that it is :shock:

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:16 pm
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phansford wrote:
The Super and Champ II are Rivera-era amps. The Champ 12 has some issues - I think it had a plastic input jack that was easily damaged. The smaller amps are not just "student" amps - Champs and Princetons were/are used for recording. It wasn't only Clapton on Layla.
All amps have issues.
Fender made the 10" and 12" Champs for eleven years.
I bet Eric Clapton could have done Layla using a Super 12 Champ.

I nearly purchased a Champ 12 with red knobs, earlier this year.
I was in hot pursuit as I studied and it had all of the features I desired.
I was just going to invest in the Champ to see what all of the fuss is/was about.

Plastic input or not, I will bet there are 1000s of great Fender Champ II's,
Fender Super Champs, and Fender Champ 12's out in the world that are playing just fine.
Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:53 pm
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Topp, In my personal opinion... The older original tweed, BF, SF Champa, VC, and Broncos have the tone to die for. Esp compared to later models. You need to test drive one of these. They'll play at "10" or "12" all day long. And still sound good at "5" or below. No pedals, except for maybe a Delay. Or better, a tank Reverb Unit.



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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:25 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Topp, In my personal opinion... The older original tweed, BF, SF Champa, VC, and Broncos have the tone to die for. Esp compared to later models. You need to test drive one of these. They'll play at "10" or "12" all day long. And still sound good at "5" or below. No pedals, except for maybe a Delay. Or better, a tank Reverb Unit.
Honestly, no doubt at all. Thanks for the thoughts/ideas.
I bet they are great. But my interests lie elsewhere at the moment.
I have a Pignose Hog-20w and it really pushes the over-drive tone :lol:

My current project is testing guitars, speakers, speaker cabinets & amplifiers
to develop unique tones & sounds and/or combinations.

This week I will be purchasing my very last guitar.
Recently, I purchased my last combo amp and my last amp head.

I do have several combo amps,
but mostly "amp heads" from all eras to focus on my custom speaker projects:
1963 Fender Tremolux amp head
1964 Fender Bassman amp head
1968 Fender Bassman amp Head
1968 Fender Showman Reverb TFL5000D amp head
1968 Fender Bandmaster Reverb TFL5005D amp head
1984 Fender Twin Reverb II amp head
1994 Fender Tone Master amp head
2001 Fender Cyber Twin amp head
2009 Fender FM-100H amp head
2011 Fender Supersonic amp head
2011 Peavey Vypyr-30w amp head

Because I just purchased the 1984 Twin Reverb II amp head,
I sold my 1968 Twin Reverb 2x12 Combo on EBay last week.

I've been and will be procuring speaker cabinets.
Currently, I have:
Three 1950s Bell & Howell Projector Cabinets with Jensen P12P Speakers
1963 Fender Blonde 2x10 Tremolux
1994 Fender Blonde 2x12 Tone Master
2000s Fender 4x10 (big, heavy on caster wheels)
2000s Fender 1x15 (big, heavy on caster wheels)

I'll have special cabinets made with unusual speaker port combinations.
I own a ton of 1950s/1960s Jensen speakers to
experiment within custom speaker cabinets.
Except for attaining the custom cabs, I'm all set.

This is why the eight inch vintage Champs you suggest just do not fit
into my current plans. They really will not drive custom speaker cabinets.

Toppscore 8)

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:01 am
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Jeeze, seems like you have it all!! Got a friend with a vintage Marshall 4X12( GH Celestions) If you need another. Art

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 3:09 am
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aclempoppi wrote:
Jeeze, seems like you have it all!! Got a friend with a vintage Marshall 4X12( GH Celestions) If you need another. Art


Thanks, I'm on a Mission from "Tone-God" - hahaha :lol:

I am going to try to do it without Gibsons and Marshalls. :roll:

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:25 am
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Toppscore wrote:
phansford wrote:
The Super and Champ II are Rivera-era amps. The Champ 12 has some issues - I think it had a plastic input jack that was easily damaged. The smaller amps are not just "student" amps - Champs and Princetons were/are used for recording. It wasn't only Clapton on Layla.
All amps have issues.
Fender made the 10" and 12" Champs for eleven years.
I bet Eric Clapton could have done Layla using a Super 12 Champ.

I nearly purchased a Champ 12 with red knobs, earlier this year.
I was in hot pursuit as I studied and it had all of the features I desired.
I was just going to invest in the Champ to see what all of the fuss is/was about.

Plastic input or not, I will bet there are 1000s of great Fender Champ II's,
Fender Super Champs, and Fender Champ 12's out in the world that are playing just fine.
Toppscore 8)


Obviously you took offense to my comment since you started another thread about "False Claims and NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT!".

It wasn't a statement about the quality of those amps or their designers. However, some people don't consider the Rivera's vintage........ yet. And this is a Forum on Vintage Amps

Some of the Rivera-era amps are highly sought after. They were the final amps coming out of the old Fender. The Super Champ is one of those amps. The Champ II died an early death due to its lack of market appeal. I would probably own a Super Champ, but they are pricey and I already have a Princeton Reverb. (I try not to duplicate my amps). In fact, I think many of us agree that the Rivera-Amps might be a good purchase and addition to one's collection since many are still fairly affordable (compared to tweeds and blackfaces).

My statement about the Champ 12 is simply a statement of caution. You might want to look at the amp closely before you pluck down cash on something without knowing some of the issues. It doesn't make the amp any less desirable, but you need to factor in the knowledge when you make the purchase.

If you are interested in a Champ with a 10" or 12" speaker, you can always play through an external and still have the 8" to get some crunch when you want it.

Having a conversation about vintage amps - certainly a misunderstanding on my part - isn't running off to call someone out in a separate thread. :evil:

I'm thinking you should shorten your name......

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:55 am
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phansford wrote:
Toppscore wrote:
phansford wrote:
The Super and Champ II are Rivera-era amps. The Champ 12 has some issues - I think it had a plastic input jack that was easily damaged. The smaller amps are not just "student" amps - Champs and Princetons were/are used for recording. It wasn't only Clapton on Layla.
All amps have issues.
Fender made the 10" and 12" Champs for eleven years.
I bet Eric Clapton could have done Layla using a Super 12 Champ.

I nearly purchased a Champ 12 with red knobs, earlier this year.
I was in hot pursuit as I studied and it had all of the features I desired.
I was just going to invest in the Champ to see what all of the fuss is/was about.

Plastic input or not, I will bet there are 1000s of great Fender Champ II's,
Fender Super Champs, and Fender Champ 12's out in the world that are playing just fine.
Toppscore 8)
Obviously you took offense to my comment since you started another thread about "False Claims and NOT ALL Vintage Amps are GREAT!". It wasn't a statement about the quality of those amps or their designers. However, some people don't consider the Rivera's vintage........ yet. And this is a Forum on Vintage Amps
Some of the Rivera-era amps are highly sought after. They were the final amps coming out of the old Fender. The Super Champ is one of those amps. The Champ II died an early death due to its lack of market appeal. I would probably own a Super Champ, but they are pricey and I already have a Princeton Reverb. (I try not to duplicate my amps). In fact, I think many of us agree that the Rivera-Amps might be a good purchase and addition to one's collection since many are still fairly affordable (compared to tweeds and blackfaces).
My statement about the Champ 12 is simply a statement of caution. You might want to look at the amp closely before you pluck down cash on something without knowing some of the issues. It doesn't make the amp any less desirable, but you need to factor in the knowledge when you make the purchase. If you are interested in a Champ with a 10" or 12" speaker, you can always play through an external and still have the 8" to get some crunch when you want it. Having a conversation about vintage amps - certainly a misunderstanding on my part - isn't running off to call someone out in a separate thread. :evil: I'm thinking you should shorten your name......


Phansfore. No, not at all.
Not calling you out anywhere. You are making things/thoughts up.

Anyway, after thinking about the old Champs and the 1980s Champs,
my mind wondered into a new area of thinking. You are right that the older
Champs are different than the 1980s Champs. No big deal.

But, the thought of the Champ 12 having a reputation for a plastic connector,
got me thinking towards a bigger picture that I did not want to discuss within
this thread. Not about you at all. Just, your comment was the impetitus for
a bigger discussion that has been brewing within for some time. Your comment
just reminded me of that bigger issue.

Hey, thinking about it, there is no way a six inch or eight inch Champ can compare with
a ten inch/twelve inch Champ. I was ONLY interested in the red knobbed twleve inch
Champ 12 because it had reverb/headphone jack. Cool for me, but not vintage sounding at all.

Anyway, what is "The Vintage Line"?
I believe it is 1989 and earlier;
or when the current Fender management finally got things going in 1988;
or the end of the Paul Rivera era in 1987. That is how I think of vintage.

But the other thread about SOME vintage amp owner who put-down modern
Fender amps, is not a good subject within this thread (IMHO). Sorry if the words
appeared differently to you than I intended. Toppscore :)

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:39 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Does ANYBODY gig with their vintage amps?
Too scared the amp might get damaged or stolen?


I gigged in college with mine, it's been pretty much my ONLY amp for 20+ years. if it can do whatever I need it to... like gig... why have it?


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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:53 am
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Topp, it really doesn't matter to me, if you like the newer Champs (with bigger speakers) or the older ones with 8-inch speakers. Whatever suits your fancy. But, you asked about the older BF and SF Champs & I tried to respond, as I like these amps.

Maybe, we should all just let this thing go... :D


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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:18 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Topp, it really doesn't matter to me, if you like the newer Champs (with bigger speakers) or the older ones with 8-inch speakers. Whatever suits your fancy. But, you asked about the older BF and SF Champs & I tried to respond, as I like these amps.

Maybe, we should all just let this thing go... :D


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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 10:31 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Topp, it really doesn't matter to me, if you like the newer Champs (with bigger speakers) or the older ones with 8-inch speakers. Whatever suits your fancy. But, you asked about the older BF and SF Champs & I tried to respond, as I like these amps. Maybe, we should all just let this thing go... :D


No matter to me. I did not buy one.
Never owned one. Tried to at one point.
Someone earlier said that Champs were with eight inch speakers.
I found Fender made Champs with ten inch and twelve inch speakers
for eleven years. I think it is real cool somone showed a nice picture
of their family of vintage amps that that had three Champs.
Take care.

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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:53 pm
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Toppscore wrote:
Does ANYBODY gig with their vintage amps?
Too scared the amp might get damaged or stolen?

Vintage amps are ALL I gig with...that's what they're made for...I pity the fool who ever tries to steal one!
This is my current main rig...'67 Vibrolux Reverb and '62 Strat AVRI.
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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:59 pm
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My son latched onto this '60 Super and loves it,he gigs with it and loves the tremolo.
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Post subject: Re: PICTURES ONLY * Surround your Axes w/Favorite VINTAGE AM
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:16 pm
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Rebel, those bottle driven tremolo/vibrato are the cat's meow. Way better than most opto-bug circuits. IMHO. My Pro has three 12AX7 driving the phase-shift. Dick Dale stuff for sure.


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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