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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 2:10 am
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OK... I'm think I'm still confused. Sorry about that. But, isn't "speaker breakup" a function solely of the the speaker? Depending on magnet construction, speaker material & thickness, VC material & dimension, and the use of doping? Not anything to do with whatever amp it's hooked to?

At least that what I always thought.


Last edited by BMW2002Ti on Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:03 am
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Toppscore wrote:
Arc-n-spark wrote:
Toppscore wrote:



Therefore, with the master volume on your 1971 TR (have not you had this amp for ten years?)
you can play great distorted tones/sounds at very low "bedroom" volume levels.

I really hope this helps you, your question and possibilities towards playing amps
with headphone jacks, master volume controls and/or attenuators.

Take care. Toppscore 8)[/b]


OP: When I set the original volume to #7 our even up to #10 and with the Master Volume at around #2, I get a mild overdriven sound, comparable with setting the drive of my Lovepedal Amp11 to #2 (it sounds actually pretty damn the same!). So it adds some dirt, but not a whole lot


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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:05 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
OK... I'm think I'm still confused. Sorry about that. But, isn't "speaker breakup" a function solely of the the speaker? Depending on magnet construction, speaker material & thickness, VC material & dimension, and the use of doping? Not anything to do with whatever amp its hooked to? At least that what I always thought.
Think tube distortion instead of speaker breakup.
Sorry, my mind is "distorted" or reached that "mental break-up" too soon :lol:

***Also depends if the discussion includes:
headphones, attenuators or master volume controls.
Toppscore

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:17 am
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Yep, with the master that low, you're looking at the pre-amp. Beemer nailed the deal with the speakers! Art

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:38 am
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I don't think you can get those JBL speakers to breakup without turning the Twin way up. Aren't they built to take a lot of power?


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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:12 am
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Guitarist1983 wrote:
I don't think you can get those JBL speakers to breakup without turning the Twin way up. Aren't they built to take a lot of power?


The breakup point for a D-series JBL does not produce a particularly pleasant tone -- not in the way a vintage Jensen, a V30, or even a Weber sounds when pushed. And the power-handling capability is far less than most people think. I've seen literally hundreds of blown JBL's, courtesy of such misconceptions. Bottom line, the breakup point for a JBL is danger-close to the point where the speaker actually breaks.

Figure on 35 watts continuous for a D120F and D130F, 50 watts for a D140F bass driver, and 25 watts for the D110F. These specs come straight from Harvey Gerst, the JBL engineer who originally designed the F-series. JBL's in-house PR machine would later "embellish" these figures -- I've got original advertising literature from them that claims 50 watts for the D120F and later even 75 watts. Those who rely on that inflated data are whistling past the graveyard.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:11 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
OK... I'm think I'm still confused. Sorry about that. But, isn't "speaker breakup" a function solely of the the speaker? Depending on magnet construction, speaker material & thickness, VC material & dimension, and the use of doping? Not anything to do with whatever amp it's hooked to?

At least that what I always thought.


BMW: Yes, what you say is true. Speaker construction and power handling capability determine when a speaker will break up. But as per Arjay's post, achieving speaker breakup requires POWER which means the amp will be quite loud. You are not going to get speaker breakup with the master volume turned down so low that the power tubes are not putting out any significant power.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:34 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Maybe in some parallel universe you can remove the master volume, and keep it too, but not in this one. :lol:



Yes Yes Yes ~ ALL is POSSIBLE in Parallel Universes :shock:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:39 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
*SOMEBODY* flunked "tube amp theory 101". Arjay


Me! I dealt with the "TUBE Steak Boogie Girls" :lol:
Everyday, practiced after school.

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Last edited by Toppscore on Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 3:47 pm
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Arc-n-spark wrote:
I've been thinking about writing a book
based on what I read on this site. I think I'll call it "When Egos Collide" :mrgreen:


I've already written the Forward:

"How Possibility at Fender Overcame 'Sticks In The Mud'" :idea: :idea: :idea:

Toppscore 8)

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Last edited by Toppscore on Mon Jun 11, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:28 pm
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bluesky636, Yes re: speaker breakup I understand power and causing speaker breakup. BUT my point is the speaker breakup is speaker dependent NOT amp. In other words, say a pair of D120F breakups up at 100 watts RMS. It would take roughly 100 watts RMS, regardless if the amp was a Marshall, Hiwatt, Fender, etc. And whether the amp had tubes or solid state.


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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 4:35 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
bluesky636, Yes re: speaker breakup I understand power and causing speaker breakup. BUT my point is the speaker breakup is speaker dependent NOT amp. In other words, say a pair of D120F breakups up at 100 watts RMS. It would take roughly 100 watts RMS, regardless if the amp was a Marshall, Hiwatt, Fender, etc. And whether the amp had tubes or solid state.


Yes. I agree, but I don't see where anybody said that speaker breakup WAS amp dependent. I know that I didn't.

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:26 pm
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Seems to me, we're talking about three aspects of the amp, concerning a master volume. Pre amp distortion, power amp saturation, and speaker break-up. The fun part is, that they are seperate, yet all related ! Art

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:32 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Seems to me, we're talking about three aspects of the amp, concerning a master volume. Pre amp distortion, power amp saturation, and speaker break-up. The fun part is, that they are seperate, yet all related ! Art


I'll agree with that. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Fender Twin Reverb... or not??
Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:54 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Seems to me, we're talking about three aspects of the amp, concerning a master volume. Pre amp distortion, power amp saturation, and speaker break-up. The fun part is, that they are seperate, yet all related ! Art


Just like in parallel universe activities.
I agree. In the end, we get fun sounds & tones to play with.
Add some in-phase and out-of-phase humbucker & single coil veritone switching
and we are into universal "black-hole" kinetic energy :lol:

Toppscore 8)

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