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Post subject: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:22 am
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Looks decent and original to me. The price is high but I'll bet it's negotiable.

1965 Fender Blackface Princeton Reverb - $1800

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:29 am
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Thats one i would love to add to my stable !

But thats about double what i would pay

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:48 am
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mhowell wrote:
Looks decent and original to me.


It's neither.

Quote:
The price is high but I'll bet it's negotiable.


Indeed it is but the seller seems adamantly recalcitrant.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:07 am
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I bet the seller also has a minty 911 Porsche he only drove to church on Sundays. :roll:

Shoving a 12" speaker in this amp when it came with a 10" means it is NOT original. The power cord and a cap job could be expected for this age of amp. Retroverbial would know from looking at the chassis photos is its "original" or not. If he says its not original... then I believe him.

The seller is asking the high end of guide value for this amp and its been altered. This amp should sell closer to $800-$1,000. And honestly.... CL is the garage sale of the internet. Asking full retail on CL rarely flies. FWIW - I've bought most of my vintage amps off CL . :lol:

I have trouble believing anyone can "gig" with a drummer and have the amp set a 2 or 3 and still be part of the mix as the seller claims - even with the 12" speaker.


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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:23 am
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phansford wrote:
Retroverbial would know from looking at the chassis photos is its "original" or not.


It most assuredly is not!

Enough so to severely contravene the seller's assertion to the contrary.

As well, the speaker shown installed in the amp is neither of the two he mentioned as being included in the sale.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:48 pm
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Well,I can gig with,as he put it...a loud drummer,and have the volume on 2 or 3,but no one would hear me! :mrgreen:
With all of my amps,depending on the venue,the volume is set from 4 to 6.

The speaker frame is crammed against the trannie in the pics,a problem with some replaced speakers,he might even have moved the trannie to get the speaker in...I thought I saw another hole,but maybe I didn't,I'll look again.
Looking at the cord,you would really need to rewire the connections...it doesn't look like the "hot" is the one that's fused but you really can't see all of that....just a few things.


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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:25 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
mhowell wrote:
Looks decent and original to me.


It's neither.

Quote:
The price is high but I'll bet it's negotiable.


Indeed it is but the seller seems adamantly recalcitrant.

Arjay


I'll go with your judgement on the condition and originality. My idea of decent may be a tad lenient.

Had to look up "recalcitrant" :oops: - you're probably right about that to.

Out of curiosity I checked completed listings on ebay and a '64 PR sold for $1800 but there's no photos. The description says excellent but folk's definition of excellent varies widely. That was the highest price sold on completed listings. There are several higher priced listings that didn't sell.

Someone actually paid $1000 for a '75 silverface PR!

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:46 pm
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mhowell wrote:
Someone actually paid $1000 for a '75 silverface PR!


A reasonable price assuming no serious issues.

The blackface model for sale which you've linked to has been manhandled, and badly. The standard rectifier for an AA1164 Princeton Reverb is a GZ34 -- in this instance, it's been swapped for a 5U4GB by some hotshot. The 5U4GB requires 30% more heater current which is likely why the power transformer was replaced after the original was overstressed at the 6.3VAC heater tap and burned up. The tranny installation looks like it was performed by neanderthals using stone-age implements. And the tranny itself isn't even a Fender component -- a "real" PR PT carries the P/N 125P1B (FEIC) or 022772 (FMI).

Is it still worthy? Yes......but certainly not worthy of $1800.

Could it be restored? Of course......at some modest cost by someone familiar with the breed.

Were you to be seriously considering this amp I'd caution you with what every Navy vet recognizes to be a universal danger signal......

Fire in the paint locker!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:55 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
mhowell wrote:
Someone actually paid $1000 for a '75 silverface PR!


A reasonable price assuming no serious issues.

The blackface model for sale which you've linked to has been manhandled, and badly. The standard rectifier for an AA1164 Princeton Reverb is a GZ34 -- in this instance, it's been swapped for a 5U4GB by some hotshot. The 5U4GB requires 30% more heater current which is likely why the power transformer was replaced after the original was overstressed at the 6.3VAC heater tap and burned up. The tranny installation looks like it was performed by neanderthals using stone-age implements. And the tranny itself isn't even a Fender component -- a "real" PR PT carries the P/N 125P1B (FEIC) or 022772 (FMI).

Is it still worthy? Yes......but certainly not worthy of $1800.

Could it be restored? Of course......at some modest cost by someone familiar with the breed.

Were you to be seriously considering this amp I'd caution you with what every Navy vet recognizes to be a universal danger signal......

Fire in the paint locker!

Arjay


I wasn't considering it at all. Just sharing. However, if I do find something that I would consider I'm definitely coming here for comments, advice, and suggestions first.

Later,

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 2:28 pm
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phansford wrote:
.
.
.
I have trouble believing anyone can "gig" with a drummer and have the amp set a 2 or 3 and still be part of the mix as the seller claims - even with the 12" speaker.


I gig at relatively low volumes but I place the amp between me and the audience with the amp facing me. Basically it's used as a monitor and it's mic'd to get it in the house mix. I've done it with a PR (which I no longer own) and I don't think I ever turned it up past 3.

Obviously that type of setup is not even viable if you want to 'drive' the power section of your amp. There's also something about a cranked amp that just makes playing more fun. :) The PR I had didn't start to really come into it's own until the volume was at about 5 - very pleasing tone with no pedals required. I tried using a more conventional setup but folks kept asking me to turn it down. Guess my picking leaves much to be desired even with the nice PR tone.

Now I'm thinking about plugging in headphones to a digitech pedal ( I recently picked up a used rp355 ) and not using an amp at all. Seriously. The pedal has xlr outs so I can leave the mic and the amp at home. That idea is not motivated by any practical musical reasons. I'm just to lazy to lug an amp around and don't see a reason to bother if I can't crank it anyway. :x

Later,

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:40 am
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I've found that with vintage Fenders,and the smallest I gig with is a DR,that they start really finding their "voice" at around 4-6 on the volume knob,rarely do I ever go higher at an inside gig.


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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:40 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
I've found that with vintage Fenders...that they start really finding their "voice" at around 4-6 on the volume knob.


+1

I've played many indoor barn dances over the years with my 2 x 12 piggyback Princeton (aka the infamous "Dual Porch Weasel") and against the rest of the backline "opposition" it works best with the volume knob close to 7. For those types of gigs, the other amps on stage are (usually) an Ampeg V4B and a tweed HRD 4 x 10.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: '65 PR
Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:21 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
I've found that with vintage Fenders,and the smallest I gig with is a DR,that they start really finding their "voice" at around 4-6 on the volume knob,rarely do I ever go higher at an inside gig.

+1

My PR would begin to breakup with the volume around 5. At 8 or 9 those palm muted, two note power chords were down right heavy.

When I first began to understand how to tweek and dial them in I was stunned at the variety of tones available from those old Fenders, with no pedals; just drive the amp and adjust the tones, as needed, with the guitar controls. (It would help to have a pull-up volume control that I could set in the up position, then push it down so that it wouldn't change as I bump it while playing.) :lol:

Cheers,

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