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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:54 am
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i would like one of those mustangs to easy to carry around and all the options online would be fun to noodle with


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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:45 am
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Sorry, for being late to this party...

" We're discussing clipping characteristics of tubes vs SS devices and you post a comparison of 6L6GC clipping to EL34 clipping? How is that helpful? On what page are the equivalent transistor clipping curves? "

This is the key to why cranking some solid-state amps = not as good tone as tube. SS circuits need extra feedback to control production of odd-ordered harmonics. Which are not pleasing to the ear. Plus, SS-amp tend to have harsh onset of clipping, as opposed to most tube amps. Making a rather unpleasant tonal result at "10."

Here's a semi-technical post about such creatures:

http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_Vacuum_Tubes ... istors.htm


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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:18 am
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I think that the newer modeling devices such as the POD and some others are a very good compromise between SS and tube. These devices are more like software controlled, and seem to be much closer to producing a tube tone than traditional SS devices, yet offer the versatility of many different sounds. I haven't really looked into the guts of these, maybe they are PLID, firmware, or software controlled, but sound very much like the amps that they are supposed to model. They have especially good tone when used into the tube output section of many amps. Some Line 6 amps have the POD preamp and tube output section, and they sound very good.

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:46 am
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The day I can A/B a SS or software based product and it can sound as good as my Tube amps I'll gladly go modern, it has yet to happen and I own software run systems and have been through the Cybertwin and cybertwin se a few line 6 amps that sounded like poo.

I said I would never go digital and just bought my first Digital SLR Camera and love it, there are certainly things about film that are still better to me but for the slight difference digital makes sense in photography, maybe some day digital will replace tubes, not today !

Touch dynamics, organic sound, overall tone capabilities are what tubes still bring us.

Change for the sake of change is stupid, what did they used to say ???
If it aint broke don't fix it !!! 8)

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:20 pm
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Have you tried the Line 6 amps with a tube output section (hybrid), or a POD into the Power Amp In of a tube amp? As I said, very good, closer to tube than SS, but not exactly the same as tube. Of course the best of the modeling devices still need a tube output section, and the ones with no tubes aren't much better than the SS ones. Frankly, for me, a POD and headphones sound really sweet, no need to fire up an entire tube amp every time. :wink:

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 12:50 pm
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Shimmilou I think you have hit on something here, I tried several of the Fender Cyber series amps, looking for an easy way to get certain guitarist's sounds for certain songs.
I had tons of fun, however the tweeker in me made me do side by side comparisons with real vintage tube amps and some new copies of Bassman, twins and 5E3 stuff, the Cyber stuff just couldn't pull it off.

Where did I find the sound more than decent on the Cyber stuff ??? through headphones !
They had excellent sound through the headphones !!! but never live through the speakers.
I always thought fender should have made a Cyber Twin that was like line 6 pod and gearbox stuff.

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:23 am
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While I enjoy my Mustang I, it's silly to compare it to the amps discussed in this forum. The Mustangs are cheap amps made with cheap parts that can easily break and are extrememly difficult to repair. They're really not made to be repaired. They're disposable amps. Although I imagine that if you stay away from the aux and headpone jacks they'll hold up well enough for most folks.

They're great beginner amps. You get a lot of sounds for very little money. And, I think a not so good guitar player can sound a better on a Mustang than a vintage tube amp. Different story for a decent guitar player. I think I would have had more fun back in the day with a Mustang then with my "real" fender amps with I was just starting.

But, at the end of the day, the Mustangs are just not qualilty amps. Even the covering is cheap. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying my Mustang 1- although when the headphone or aux jack breaks .....


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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:21 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Sorry, for being late to this party...

" We're discussing clipping characteristics of tubes vs SS devices and you post a comparison of 6L6GC clipping to EL34 clipping? How is that helpful? On what page are the equivalent transistor clipping curves? "

This is the key to why cranking some solid-state amps = not as good tone as tube. SS circuits need extra feedback to control production of odd-ordered harmonics. Which are not pleasing to the ear. Plus, SS-amp tend to have harsh onset of clipping, as opposed to most tube amps. Making a rather unpleasant tonal result at "10."

Here's a semi-technical post about such creatures:

http://www.co-bw.com/Audio_Vacuum_Tubes ... istors.htm

Hamm's study is was highly biased. All the tube circuits were single-ended and all the transistorised circuits were push-pull. Push-pull circuits, whether tube or solid-state, will cancel even order harmonics.

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:22 am
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blues bondsman wrote:
The day I can A/B a SS or software based product and it can sound as good as my Tube amps I'll gladly go modern, it has yet to happen and I own software run systems and have been through the Cybertwin and cybertwin se a few line 6 amps that sounded like poo.

I said I would never go digital and just bought my first Digital SLR Camera and love it, there are certainly things about film that are still better to me but for the slight difference digital makes sense in photography, maybe some day digital will replace tubes, not today !

Touch dynamics, organic sound, overall tone capabilities are what tubes still bring us.

Change for the sake of change is stupid, what did they used to say ???
If it aint broke don't fix it !!! 8)

How do you A/B these products?

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:06 pm
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How do you A/B this gear ?

A cool little devise called an A/B or my favorite and ABY pedal

Lets you instantly switch back and forth to hear specific differences in tone

The ABY box lets you play one or the other or both at the same time

That's how

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1968 Bandmaster with 2X12 cab C-rex speakers
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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:35 pm
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I can't attest to this particular product.... but this is an A/B pedal from Boss


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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:05 pm
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blues bondsman wrote:
How do you A/B this gear ?

A cool little devise called an A/B or my favorite and ABY pedal

Lets you instantly switch back and forth to hear specific differences in tone

The ABY box lets you play one or the other or both at the same time

That's how

So it was not a blind test. Which it OK. Most of us don't have a lab to setup a blind test.

Did you try the A/B test with all amps plugged into the same speakers? Not a big deal if you didn't but
you wouldn't strictly be comparing one architecture against another if that's the case.

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:47 am
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The sound difference is so obvious
No need for further testing, there is a cold lifeless side to digital that can't be covered up, it is incredible obvious when played next to the real deal.

Try it yourself, you can't make claims until you have side by side comparisons
The Cybertwin, Mustangs etc.... sound decent enough, until you here the real Tube amps they are trying to emulate right next to them.

Not that any of them are bad, just don't tell me they are the same tonally as the real deal, they are not, and my guess is they never will be.

Embrace the TUBE ! its your friend :lol:

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Keepn' the Blues Alive

2004 50th Ann. Limited edition AMSE Stratocaster
2017 50's Baja Telecaster BSB

1968 Bandmaster with 2X12 cab C-rex speakers
VHT Special 6 Ultra combo

Visual Sound Route 66
Cmatmods Signa Drive


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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:15 pm
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blues bondsman wrote:
The sound difference is so obvious
No need for further testing, there is a cold lifeless side to digital that can't be covered up, it is incredible obvious when played next to the real deal.

Try it yourself, you can't make claims until you have side by side comparisons
The Cybertwin, Mustangs etc.... sound decent enough, until you here the real Tube amps they are trying to emulate right next to them.

Not that any of them are bad, just don't tell me they are the same tonally as the real deal, they are not, and my guess is they never will be.

Embrace the TUBE ! its your friend :lol:

Describe the "cold lifeless side" and explain why it "can't be covered up". That sounds like very subjective terms to me.

I've played all kinds of amps. I learned on a '51 Gibson es125 through a Supro Spectator. I've owned three peavey amps, two fender Princeton Reverbs, A Vox, Crate G40C, a Yamaha G100 and currently using a Mustang I and a Mustang II.

The best tone I got was a combination of a Peavey Heritage VTX and the Yamaha G100. I used to play them through a pan pedal and the stereo sound of those two amps was the best to my ears.

The Yamaha is pure solid state and the Peavey was tube power amp with solid state pre-amp.

All the Peavey's I owned were built like tanks. The Mustangs are great for home use but I'd never trust them for any kind of professional use. But that has nothing to do with their tone. I think they sound just fine. But just like your opinion - mine is also subjective.

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Last edited by mhowell on Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Did I get Ripped?
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:24 pm
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The old Sunn amps with CMOS sound pretty darned good for a solid-state amp, both clean and distorted. Maybe the Jazz Chorus would be another contender, but most solid-state amps are definitely lacking somewhat when compared to tube amps.

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