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Post subject: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:59 am
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I'm considering building an amp. I've never done it before but I can solder and read a blueprint. I think with a little study I could learn to read a schematic and I already have some pretty good tools. I like the Vibrolux Reverb and since all the kit makers refer to the circuit numbers I decided to look it up but I found three different circuit numbers for the VR and I am wondering if some of the amp gurus here can tell me what the difference is.

According to Ampwares the circuit numbers are:

AA964
AB864
AB964
Blackface

and:
AA270
Silverface

Anybody got any info?

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:25 pm
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Most everyone wants the Blackface circuitry,the '64 design....this site explains some of the differences between the BF and SF circuits....most of the changes in the BF circuits were some small component values and really not that many....
http://fenderguru.com/amps/vibrolux


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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:23 pm
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Thanks Reb.

Do you know anything about the Marsh kits?

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 6:21 pm
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BMW-KTM,

If you have been reading my thread about my build up of a Weber 5F6A amp

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=65668

you should have a pretty good idea of what it takes to build one of these kits and the problems you can run into. The Marsh kits have the advantage of including an instruction manual, which Weber does not. The Vibrolux is a pretty complex amp, probably more so than my 5F6A. If you have never built anything like this before, you may want to start out with something simpler like 63Supro did. I have never built an amp before, but then I have a BS degree in electrical engineering and have been reading schematics for years.

I looked at the Marsh kits when I was looking for a kit to build. Their Bassman is almost $400 more than the Weber kit. Marsh does use some better components, but I don't think they are $400 better than Weber.

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:52 pm
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Actually I haven't been reading it but I will start. Marsh is the only kit maker I've found so far that make a VR kit but I'm going to keep looking. I suppose I could start with a 5E3.

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:41 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
Actually I haven't been reading it but I will start. Marsh is the only kit maker I've found so far that make a VR kit but I'm going to keep looking. I suppose I could start with a 5E3.


I think you will find it enlightening. It's 7 pages so far with lots of photos. :lol:

I have been working on it for a month (mostly weekends only) and had a minor setback last week when I powered it on for the first time. I hope to have the problem corrected and the amp working this weekend. :D

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:58 am
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Bill gives good advice,the Vibrolux is a complicated build and it would be better to start with a less complicated amp...I've thought about this myself.but I've concetrated on learning to repair the amps I have to become more familiar with the designs and layout and the pitfalls.
There's a lot of things that go into building like the lead dress of the wiring to keep noise and other problems down,it's a good thing to learn if you're so inclined.
The reason I've learned what I have is to do the repairs instead of relying on others to do it for me,it's like the old days of doing the routine repairs on cars,like points,plugs and condenser and timing,etc....if it gets too complicated then I ask questions here or take it to the pros.


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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:05 am
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Wow Bill,
I haven't been looking at the modern amp section and have missed your build thread,I'm at work and just scanned through the first page,looks very interesting I'll read it all later and enjoy the pics. :D


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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:54 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Wow Bill,
I haven't been looking at the modern amp section and have missed your build thread,I'm at work and just scanned through the first page,looks very interesting I'll read it all later and enjoy the pics. :D


Thanks. Have fun. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:31 pm
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Some interesting ideas on that Fender Guru site. Love the one with the dial on the back side of the chassis. Seems almost sacrilegious. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:00 pm
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BMW-KTM,
Allen Amps makes a Vibrolux kit ( I'm pretty sure ). Their kits are supposed to be first class, maybe a little more expensive than the Marsh Kits. Let us know what you plan to do and post picks. I've been thinking of doing a Black Face kit build, but not sure my skills are up to it.
Good Luck,
filerj


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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:37 pm
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BMW-KTM,

I posted this in my 5F6A build-up thread. You might find it useful.


Anyway, as promised, here are a few lessons learned that anyone considering building an amp (especially if it is the first time you have done something like this) may want to consider. So here we go.

1. Do a lot of research. If you are not familiar with tube amp design and construction or your only experience has been changing tubes, borrow or buy a couple of books on the subject. I received my BSEE in 1976. Tubes were still taught then but were on their way out. I wanted to refresh my memory on them so I bought the following books:

http://www.amazon.com/How-Hot-Rod-Your- ... pd_sim_b_8

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Amplifier- ... d_sim_b_22

http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Amplifier- ... pd_sim_b_3

http://www.amazon.com/Circuit-Analysis- ... pd_sim_b_6

I have also have this book on order:

http://www.amazon.com/Radio-Designers-H ... d_sim_b_25

And of course, I have this book because of the great photos:

http://www.amazon.com/Soul-Tone-Celebra ... 375&sr=1-2

2. Research the companies that offer tube guitar kits. A few of the more popular ones are:

Weber - https://taweber.powweb.com/store/kits.htm

MOJO Tone - http://www.mojotone.com/amp-kits

Marsh - http://store.marshamps.com/index.php?cPath=21

Ceriatone - http://www.ceriatone.com/

Allen Amplification - http://www.allenamps.com/

and many more. Prices cover a wide range. Some kits may have better quality parts and the price reflects that. Many kits offer optional upgrades. I found it cheaper to buy my kit without tubes and to buy better tubes on-lne from a tube specialty company (Eurotubes primarily). The only parts I found to be cheaply made in my Weber kit were the speaker connectors which I promptly replaced. Also, keep in mind that some sellers offer full instructions for their kits, others just a schematic and wiring diagram.

3. Once you have picked a dealer, choose your amp (2 and 3 are kind of interchangeable as far as order goes). If you have never worked on an amp or built anything before, you might want to choose something simple like a Champ or maybe a Deluxe type kit. Leave that Blackface Twin Reverb for a later time when you have more experience. Or, if you are like me and want to make use of that degree you got years ago and think you know it all, dive right in. There is usually someone around to help bail you out. :lol:

4. Ok. You've picked your dealer and amp kit. Do you have tools? If you have been working on guitars or pedals for a while, you probably have the basics: soldering iron, wire cutters/strippers, needle nose plyers, tweezers, various screw drivers, socket and adjustable wrenches, etc. For the most part, that is all you need. You'll also need a good DVM and depending on the amp type, maybe a bias probe to safely set the amp bias. Weber has a nice selection of specialty tools to consider:

https://amptechtools.powweb.com/index.html

5. Once the kit arrives, do a complete parts inventory. If things just come in a big bag, separate all the components into individual, labled bags. Instead of trying to read the resistor color code, just measure the resistor value with your new DVM.

6. Did you pick an amp kit with full instructions? Good. Follow them to the letter. If like mine and the kit came only with a schematic and wiring diagram, prepare to make mistakes and do things over. Study every bit of documentation that comes with the kit. You may find that the proper order to do things is elusive and you may have to remove something that you just installed to install something else. Find photos of your amp being assembled by others. Many sites have a help page that you can go to. Weber has an amp building forum and also has photos posted of kits assembled by others. There are a lot of DIY amp forums on the Internet.

7. Take your time. I can't stress this enough. It took me a month of weekends, working until 2:00 or 3:00 am sometimes, to complete my kit. Make sure all your solder joints are clean and shiny. Proper wire dress is critical to avoid hum or possible shorts. Check everything over twice. Then check it again. If you think you made a mistake, you probably did so check it a fourth time.

8. When you are ready to turn the amp on for the first time, make sure another adult is at home, a fire extinguisher is handy, and 911 is on speed dial. Just kidding, but the first time can be nerve wracking. Don't install the tubes yet. Just make sure that the rectifier is installed (tube or solid state). Turn the main power switch on and watch for arcing or smoke. If all is well, throw the standby switch if the amp has one. Measure all the open circuit power supply voltages and tube voltages and check them against the schematic. They will be a bit high, but you will know if there is a missing power connection. Shut everything down and unplug the amp. If you have some old but working tubes, install those so you don't risk damage to your expensive NOS tubes. Turn the volume control all the way down. Turn the amp on and again watch for sparks or smoke. If all is good, measure the DC voltages again. Slowly turn the volume up and listen for a slight hiss. Hiss is good. Loud hum or squeals is bad. If you get hiss, check and adjust the power tube bias (if necessary), turn the amp off, plug in your guitar, turn the amp on and make music. If a problem ocurred, you will need to trouble shoot. Books and forums are a big help here.

9. When all is working properly, pat yourself on the back. Congratulations. You have just built the best guitar amp in the world. Why is it the best? Because it was the product of your two hands. Now, go make some joyful noise. :D :D :D

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:03 pm
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Excellent advise, Bill ! The 5E3 or Champ is probably a great first build. And you're quite right about Weber kits, you definitely need some prior experience with tube amps. Like you said, the planning stage is very important! When I have an amp in for repairs, after the diagnosis, I spend an hour(no charge) planning and writing out my method and order of work to be done. I spent well over 2 hours deciding how to go about rebuilding my '55 Valco. But I had to draw up a schematic and layout. Of course my Philosophy Degree isn't much help. But it's all good and I'm looking at an Allen kit, just a 12-26 watter. Art

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:10 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Of course my Philosophy Degree isn't much help.


Thanks.

Actually, I think a Philosophy degree would go a long way in the patience department. :D

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Post subject: Re: different circuits
Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:55 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
aclempoppi wrote:
Of course my Philosophy Degree isn't much help.


Thanks.

Actually, I think a Philosophy degree would go a long way in the patience department. :D

Great post Bill,and patience is not one of my virtues either. :D


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