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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:39 pm
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Bluesky, Sorry if I put words into your mouth. But, you answered the question--- indirectly. Yes, a lousy 4-ohm speaker can ruin your amp. But, really a poorly made speaker at any impedance rating can do the same thing.

I was just pointing out that the impedance rating is only at one frequency and one wattage load. What the impedance is over the range of frequency is dependent on each speaker.

And why it's important to try and match impedance AND get a good speaker.

Sorry, for being too verbose.


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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:38 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Bluesky, Sorry if I put words into your mouth. But, you answered the question--- indirectly. Yes, a lousy 4-ohm speaker can ruin your amp. But, really a poorly made speaker at any impedance rating can do the same thing.

I was just pointing out that the impedance rating is only at one frequency and one wattage load. What the impedance is over the range of frequency is dependent on each speaker.

And why it's important to try and match impedance AND get a good speaker.

Sorry, for being too verbose.


No worries. :D

I stand by my original response to the OP's question, which while it does not exactly answer his quesion, is 100% correct:

"Neither an original Blackface Deluxe Reverb nor a 65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue have a 4 ohm transformer tap and are not rated to drive a 4 ohm load."

I do have to note that no one else has answered the OP's question in all this back and forth. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:59 pm
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Answered as close as possible without actually measuring the amp's output

shimmilou wrote:
It will not hurt the DRRI, or any other tube amp to run at 4 ohm speaker load. If the amp is rated 8 ohms, and you use a 4 ohm speaker load, the amp will not develop full power, so the output of the DRRI would be somewhat less than the 22 watts you will get with an 8 ohm load. Any tube amp can safely and easily handle an impedance mismatch of 2 to 1.


Obviously the bias setting, tube type and speaker efficiency will determine the exact number, and the output would still have to be measured for a precise answer.

And yes, I will give you a double-your-money-back guarantee that using a tube amp with a 2 to 1 impedance mismatch will cause no harm to the amp. Of course someone would have to pay me first. :o

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:02 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
And yes, I will give you a double-your-money-back guarantee that using a tube amp with a 2 to 1 impedance mismatch will cause no harm to the amp. Of course someone would have to pay me first. :o


I love it! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:13 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Less power and earlier breakup without a pedal?!?! Why would anyone want that? :lol:

Seriously though, the tubes aren't being "pushed", and I believe that you proved my point about the unknown by assuming earlier breakup, and using the word "push" as if something is working harder. :idea:

Really? "assuming" that all the years that I've been playing music,and have even done some god-awful things like using mismatched speakers with amps and cabs ,and seriously breaking all the laws of logic by using a guitar cord for a speaker cable at some ignorant point in my life of the past 45 years of being a musician,I'm sure I don't think I've proven one damn point of the unknown,better known as your "point'".
Oh btw....when I want earlier breakup and less power without a pedal,I use another amp,like a Princeton or tweed Deluxe,when I want more headroom and more power,I use my '60 Brownface Super,or '62 Vibrolux,or '66 Pro Reverb...I don't need to rely on a mismatched speaker configuration,or a pedal...and they're all subject to be gigged with....you're not talking to a green noob here shimmi.


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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:37 pm
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Come on man. We all have strong opinions here. None of us that have been responding to this thread are "green noobs". Let's keep it civil, OK? :wink:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:55 pm
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My point was that you assumed results (possible earlier breakup, pushing the tubes), as others have also. That was my point, you assumed, therefore proving what I said about assumptions being standard when something isn't understood (ie, impedance matching). I see nothing posted about you or anyone being green here, just that it is the norm to assume things. :? Sorry if I offended you, it certainly wasn't my intention. I am usually pretty clear with my insults. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:27 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Come on man. We all have strong opinions here. None of us that have been responding to this thread are "green noobs". Let's keep it civil, OK? :wink:

sure Bill,...but I'm a strong opinionated "hot head" at times...sorry y'all. :wink:

Oh yeah, and shimmilou,I didn't mention that in my list of amps I own three vintage DR's..a '65,a '66 and a late '67 SFDR,Greg Gagliano who has researched many vintage Fender amps and their components and cosmetics,told me it was a very early example of a SFDR....Arjay here owns one of the same time period.
One amp I do know better than all the others is the DR....in the many years of playing through them and tone chasing,I've tried umpteen different reversable mods,tube changes,speakers configurations and extension cabs....I'm not as technical as y'all are,although I do work inside the amps,but believe me,other than drilling holes in chassis' and butchering the circuitry,I know what a DR will do under many circumstances,even with a 4 ohm load 2x12 or 16 ohm Marshall 4x12 cab loaded with Celestion greenbacks,no "assumptions" on my part. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:43 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
sure Bill,...but I'm a strong opinionated "hot head" at times...sorry y'all. :wink:


Hey, I'm 1/2 Polish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Scottish, and 1/8 Irish. Plus, many of my relatives are Italian. I know all about strong opinions. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:07 am
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bluesky636 wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
sure Bill,...but I'm a strong opinionated "hot head" at times...sorry y'all. :wink:


Hey, I'm 1/2 Polish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Scottish, and 1/8 Irish. Plus, many of my relatives are Italian. I know all about strong opinions. :lol:

:lol: :lol: What a combination of fightin' people! :lol: I would imagine you do know about it! :D


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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:43 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
sure Bill,...but I'm a strong opinionated "hot head" at times...sorry y'all. :wink:


Hey, I'm 1/2 Polish, 1/4 German, 1/8 Scottish, and 1/8 Irish. Plus, many of my relatives are Italian. I know all about strong opinions. :lol:

:lol: :lol: What a combination of fightin' people! :lol: I would imagine you do know about it! :D


Family gatherings were always very exciting! :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:46 am
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sigh

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:56 pm
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Thanks for all the answers but my question was "if my 1979 deluxe reverb puts out
22 watts at 8 ohms, What does it put out at 4 ohms?
I Am probably wrong but I always thought that ohmage is a measure of resistance
and that the more resistance you have, the more tempurature that is created, and
therefore the less output you get
So that leads me to think that you would have more power at 4 ohms than at 4 ohms.
Am I correct?


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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:13 pm
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And the answer was given.

The only time that you get full output power is when impedance is matched. When a higher or lower impedance is used the amp will not develop full power.

As I already posted, then repeated; If the amp is rated 8 ohms, and you use a 4 ohm speaker load, the amp will not develop full power, so the output of the DR or DRRI would be somewhat less than the 22 watts you will get with an 8 ohm load. You get the same thing with using twice the impedance of 16 ohms, the amp will not develop full power. With either impedance mismatch, the power out could be as much as half power, or somewhere in between half and full power. Don't confuse power out with volume, half power doesn't mean half volume.

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Post subject: Re: fender deluxe reverb oamage question
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:38 pm
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Tube amps with transformers do not behave like direct coupled transistor amps.

BTW, the fact that the amp is a 79 Deluxe Reverb was never mentioned in the original post.

http://ampwares.com/schematics/deluxe_reverb_boost.pdf

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