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Post subject: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:46 am
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I've learned a lot about my 67 blackface bassman head since my last post. My question is which cab do I consider for my uses:

1. Will be placed in the garage by a small '24inch length by '12inch wide window which I can't really help. I don't have anywhere else to put it. I don't want to break any windows. It would be for home practice only.

2. I live in a 2 story home with pets and am surrounded by neighbors. I don't want to hurt my pets or damage my home which is my number one concerns. I don't want to disturb my neighbors, I'll get to what kind of music I play as I'm sure volume affects these concerns.

My needs:

I'm a huge Social Distortion fan which is punk rock. They get their tone by having the volume cranked. I want to be able to get their tone without doing damage to everything around me. They use a 4x12 1960bv Marshall cab which is what I'm considering. The problem is those vintage greenback 30 watt speakers only come with certain amps, so my choices are very limited. It's tough to find something other than the 1960bv 4x12 marshall with the speakers I want. I'm not rich to get any other cab and buy the speakers I want. I don't want to have to crank it up to 7 to get it to distort though. That cab is 280 watts. Is that too much for my needs?


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:08 am
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I watched some youtube videos and guys have that cab in their bed rooms sitting in front of it thrashing away. It makes me think the loudness isn't soo bad.


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:22 am
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I kinda told you guys wrong

"Ness uses Fender Bassman amps modified by Fred Taccone of Divided by 13 through Marshall 4x10 slant cabs with Celestion 30-watt speakers. He also uses a Boss SD-1 Overdrive pedal."

But others say it's a 4x12. No one knows.

Other source says he uses: Marshall 4x10 reissue cabinets with Greenback speakers.

Are Greenbacks and Celestion 30's the same thing? Which cab would I want to get the 1960b or 1960bv?

1960bv
From Sweetwater.com
"Marshall 1960BV (Celestion Vintage 30, Straight or angled)
280 Watt 4 x 12" Mono/Stereo Straight (Base) Cabinet with Celestion G12 70W Vintage Speakers"

1960b
From Musicians Friend.com
"These 300W Marshall cabs are loaded with Celestion G12T-75 speakers."

Confusing!

Mike Ness amp and cab:

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

His tone. What speakers?
http://youtu.be/gYk9f4RSr4k?t=13s


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:29 am
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After using Fender tube amps,and Marshall amps for 40+ years,I can give you one piece of advice,you will probably not capture the exact tone you're looking for,these vintage amps all sound a little different...no two are exactly the same...you can get close enough,but don't obsess over it.
We've seen people chasing SRV's tone and asking the same questions,it can get close,but then there's the musician behind the gear that makes up 95% of the rest of the tone.
To get a stage volume tone from a cranked tube amp through a Marshall cab,you will indeed arouse the dead...ask me how I know this. :mrgreen:
PS: get a tube screamer pedal or something similar.


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:33 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
To get a stage volume tone from a cranked tube amp through a Marshall cab,you will indeed arouse the dead.


All shoe-gazers need a 50-watt, 4 x 12 rig to entertain themselves in their bedroom, Reb.

Don't you know nothin', Reb?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:33 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
To get a stage volume tone from a cranked tube amp through a Marshall cab,you will indeed arouse the dead.


All shoe-gazers need a 50-watt, 4 x 12 rig to entertain themselves in their bedroom, Reb.

Don't you know nothin', Reb?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

:lol: :lol: :lol: what can I say,man,..... :lol: 8)


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:58 pm
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nr2003man wrote:
I kinda told you guys wrong

"Ness uses Fender Bassman amps modified by Fred Taccone of Divided by 13 through Marshall 4x10 slant cabs with Celestion 30-watt speakers. He also uses a Boss SD-1 Overdrive pedal."

But others say it's a 4x12. No one knows.

Other source says he uses: Marshall 4x10 reissue cabinets with Greenback speakers.

Are Greenbacks and Celestion 30's the same thing? Which cab would I want to get the 1960b or 1960bv?

1960bv
From Sweetwater.com
"Marshall 1960BV (Celestion Vintage 30, Straight or angled)
280 Watt 4 x 12" Mono/Stereo Straight (Base) Cabinet with Celestion G12 70W Vintage Speakers"

1960b
From Musicians Friend.com
"These 300W Marshall cabs are loaded with Celestion G12T-75 speakers."

Confusing!

Mike Ness amp and cab:

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

His tone. What speakers?
http://youtu.be/gYk9f4RSr4k?t=13s


None of the above.

Get a good cheap bassman 2x12 enclosure; if it comes with good speakers, great; otherwise get a set of Warehouse G12C speakers.

Get pedals - Mike Ness gets his sound at deafening levels in a recording studio - you don't have that option, so you don't need the Marshall cabs.

Since you won't be able to get exactly his tone, find an overdrive pedal that gets you crunch without the volume. For me, I really like my Barber Direct Drive - through a Fender, it sounds pretty good for songs like "Ball & Chain."

Hope this helps. You could literally play through Mike Ness's exact rig, and you won't sound like Mike Ness -- this is a common challenge for a lot of players. Best to find sounds you like and enjoy playing Social D and other bands with your sound.

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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:56 pm
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I like the Marshall 1936 2x12 cab. That would be perfect but they have G12T75 speakers. It would be great if they sold a vintage 30s version. I think my bassman head is 4 ohms and it says the marshall 1936 is 8 ohms would that work? If I put the vintage 30s in it that would run the price up to $919.00


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:39 pm
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:x no I guess my head needs a 4 ohm cab. Geez I'm limited on the cabs I can get for this head which is why I thought I needed the 4x12 cause it was 4 ohms. I have my mind set on vintage 30s but they don't come in the cab size I want and have 4 ohms. This is tough.


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:26 am
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Okay this will be my final post. I done some reading and it's possible to get a 16 ohm cab wired to 4 ohms. I am now researching the g12h30 speakers, although I currently like the vintage 30s. It's just something you have to do a lot of research before making a purchase. I think if I can get what I want in a 2x12 I'll be happy.


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:28 am
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This might provide you some of the information you're looking for about your BF Bassman.

To cut to the chase - 4 ohm. They originally were sold with a 2 x 12 cab. I think someone already mentioned that fact.

As far as tone chasing, it can be a wild goose chase as others have advised. I think nedorama has given you some solid advice. Go slow or you'll just end up blowing a bunch of cash on gear you won't be happy with 6 months from now. (everyone here is talking from experience).

The other thing you need to remember is what an artist uses in studio isn't always what they use on stage. And sometimes half the gear on stage is for show. You can only mic so many speakers. :wink: Even in the picture you posted - only two of the speakers in that cab are shown as being miced. And it looks like you have already learned that some artists will mod their gear. (Big surprise right? God only knows what Les Paul did with his gear and he was doing it 50 years before anyone else)

That Bassman head isn't a bedroom amp - regardless of what you see on youtube - you might want to invest in attenuator. At least for the sanity of your family. :lol: IMHO - you only want to own that Bassman if you're gigging and need the 50 watts. I bet Mike Ness could squeeze his tone out of a 5 watt Champ Amp. :wink:

Bigger isn't always better. :wink: Sometimes less really is more. I had a guitar teacher who could make his Peavey amp emulate any tone he wanted. He didn't need to own a tweed Deluxe to sound like Clapton or a Marshall stack to sound like Hendrix. But then again, he was a professional musician - and was a classical guitarist by training and performed with the Cincinnati Symphony. In other words...... it ain't the gear.

All that said - Good luck. Enjoy the Bassman. Welcome to the forum.


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:00 am
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Like phansford said,we speak from experience....we've used many of these amps at home and on stage over the years.
It's funny,but playing with my son's band I've used several different amps..we have a fantastic drummer but it's hard to hold him down,he's a hard hitter.....to help keep the stage volume down I suggested mic'ing the guitar amps,so the last couple of gigs I've used my '66 Deluxe Reverb,which has a killer tone....Sat. night after playing,the drummer said "that's the loudest s.o.b. you've played through,I can hear it better than any other.".....I told him it was only 22 watts and the vol was on 4...."it's still a loud s.o.b.!",he said. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:03 am
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Plus, the Bassman Mike plays through is heavily modded; in another forum Billy Zoom talked about how he stripped out EVERYTHING inside and modded it back to a 62 6G6B schematic plus a master volume. Plus to work with the 4x12 cab, who knows what mods were done to the output transformers, or even if there's only 2 speakers in that Marshall cab... Very different amp than your 67. a 67 Bassman is a fine sounding amp on its own - instead of modding it, get a silverface and gut it instead - don't wreck a perfectly good amp.

You can spend your $919 on a new cabinet, but look at Mike's cabinets - they're all beat up. Used cabinets are the way to save a ton of money and there's always someone unloading cabs at well under the retail value.

We have all given you advice on cabs to deal with the fact that:

a) you're never going to get Mike Ness's tone; realize that now and start developing your own tone

b) a 50 watt Bassman and a 4x12 Marshall cab don't work for playing at home - you will have noise problems.

Stick with a 2x12 cabinet, get pedals to get the distortion at lower levels, and save money by not trying to have the exact rig of your heroes. At this point you can take the advice, or I'd stop posting questions on how to get his sound. No one here wants to help with that hopeless endeavor -- especially since we've all tried it in the past and realized how futile it is.

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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:49 am
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nedorama wrote:
No one here wants to help with that hopeless endeavor -- especially since we've all tried it in the past and realized how futile it is.


+1!

A fool's errand if there ever was one.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Which cab to get for my 67 blackface bassman?
Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:54 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
nedorama wrote:
No one here wants to help with that hopeless endeavor -- especially since we've all tried it in the past and realized how futile it is.


+1!

A fool's errand if there ever was one.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

+2!
It never works.


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