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Post subject: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:32 pm
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Ok, so I bought a 1982 Fender "Champ II", all the components (both transformers, chassis, etc) check out to 1982. Very nice condition, pretty much "Mint".

BUT the speaker is a mystery. And I am pretty good at dating these things. Pictures below, check 'em out, and here is what I mean.

Ok, first things first is there was no date code on the speaker. I was trippin out so I took it out and examined it extremely carefully. Still no date code in the normal place. But I did find what appeared to be the edge of a couple numbers that were underneath the "blueback" sticker on the back of the speaker. So I very carefully peeled back the very edge of the sticker (in a manner that would allow it to be pushed or glued back without notice) JUST enough to read the numbers. See picture. Number is: 023010

Anyway, the number seems to be nothing I can decipher as the manufacture code in the beginning matches no one (I think). Also, the later numbers don't make sense either. So I am stumped. Is it even a code at all ? What is it ? And furthermore how can I find out if this speaker is indeed original to this particular unit or not ?

On further investigation, I did find the "Cone Code" (506119,1) (zeros may be o's and/or 1's may be i's ?), but I was never good at deciphering cone codes, so I am stumped there. Please see picture for that as well.

Can anyone help here ? Or even shine some light as to what speaker was common for these rare Rivera Era 1982 "Champ II's" ?

Thanks in advance for your help !

Image
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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:44 pm
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Rola (285-XXX) and Pyle (1098-XXX) were quite commonly found in Fender amps of this era. It might also be an Eminence (67-XXXX). The frame appears to be a Rola and I'd guess that the speaker is OEM to the amp.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:28 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Rola (285-XXX) and Pyle (1098-XXX) were quite commonly found in Fender amps of this era. It might also be an Eminence (67-XXXX). The frame appears to be a Rola and I'd guess that the speaker is OEM to the amp.

HTH

Arjay

Hey Arjay, thanks for chiming in with some info and input. Greatly appreciated man.

I did know that about Rola and Pyle, Oxford and Eminence. But every vintage speaker (within a vintage amp) I ever owned had a date code that verified something. This one has a code (or something) under the blueback sticker, and that code even has the normal amount of digits, but 023, or any of the number make no sense.

Good call on the frame identification ! I forgot to trip on that, but your right.

Either way though, what is up with this number I found under the sticker ? Is it a code at all ? What is it ? And if it is not a date code, then why/where is this ones date code ? Is it in mint enough condition (the whole amp is) to not have been worn off and no sign of one being scraped off either.

So this mystery is kinda weird, honestly. Also, could you or anyone here figure anything out for me with the Cone Code I got there ? That would be helpful.

Thanks again !


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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:11 pm
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That's the extent of my knowledge of this speaker. I can tell you that most vendors producing speakers for Fender over the years (notable exceptions are Jensen and JBL) would also mark the frame or magnet structure with a Fender P/N. Utah went so far as to actually stamp the amp name on some of their speakers as well. I'm betting all of the relevant data you need dwells beneath that mylar Fender decal -- but removing it would destroy the sticker and reduce the value of the amp.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:10 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
That's the extent of my knowledge of this speaker. I can tell you that most vendors producing speakers for Fender over the years (notable exceptions are Jensen and JBL) would also mark the frame or magnet structure with a Fender P/N. Utah went so far as to actually stamp the amp name on some of their speakers as well. I'm betting all of the relevant data you need dwells beneath that mylar Fender decal -- but removing it would destroy the sticker and reduce the value of the amp.

HTH

Arjay

Ok, so I didn't think of that. You're saying that possibly there is yet another set of numbers underneath that blueback sticker. And that number I found at first is just some other set of numbers. I agree, that is possible. But also agree taking that sticker off in a way to put it back unnoticed would be almost impossible.

Maybe not worth the risk, but I am DYING to verify this speaker, cause if I can't prove its original, that also reduces its value.

Anyway, great info and great advice man, thanks ! I'll let you know if anything develops or what I decide to do or not do, lol....

Thanks again !


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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:13 pm
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I've have removed a sticker carefully using a hair dryer on low heat. Pulling very slowly & evenly. Cutting away any stretched adhesive with a sharp knife. Kinda like skinning an animal.

Then after you remove the sticker. You can restick the label onto the speaker.

Or add a drop of rubbing alcohol to the "Fender Special" label. It sometimes exposes the serial number and when the drop dries up---it goes back to original blue color.

Try either of these tricks on a small corner of the label. Or another speaker with this label, which you don't mind if it gets ruined. Before trying it on this particular spekaer.


Good Luck!


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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:18 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
I've have removed a sticker carefully using a hair dryer on low heat. Pulling very slowly & evenly. Cutting away any stretched adhesive with a sharp knife. Kinda like skinning an animal.

Then after you remove the sticker. You can restick the label onto the speaker.

Or add a drop of rubbing alcohol to the "Fender Special" label. It sometimes exposes the serial number and when the drop dries up---it goes back to original blue color.

Try either of these tricks on a small corner of the label. Or another speaker with this label, which you don't mind if it gets ruined. Before trying it on this particular spekaer.


Good Luck!


Hey this is great advice, and now probably gonna cause me to try it.. Ha, though I have no clue on how to skin a animal or what doing so even looks like (sorry, city boy born and raised), I did however relate to the instructions just fine. Makes sense too, just gotta soften up the adhesive, then carefully remove, helping it along the way if need be with a razor blade or sharp knife.

Whole trick to it seems like going very slow too, only move as fast as the adhesive softens in that edge, and so on, working it back till its all off.

Man, I think I can do this ! My thing is when I go to put it back, what would be the best adhesive to use ? What do they use at the Fender factory ?

Anyway, I'll take pictures of the results and my findings... Thanks again for the help guys !


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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:54 pm
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You're familiar with the adage "curiosity killed the cat"?

IMO, you're killing the cat.

No matter how skillfully you remove that sticker and how adept you are at re-affixing it to the speaker, it will never look like it does at this moment.

I just finished examining four Super Champs of near-identical vintage to yours on Ebay. While the photos in the listings were not as detailed as I would've preferred, each amp's speaker frame looked identical to yours, with an identical decal on the magnet. I'll bet a C-note that yours is OEM to the amp.

But if you simply must persist to assuage your curiosity then by all means, carry on.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:07 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
You're familiar with the adage "curiosity killed the cat"?

IMO, you're killing the cat.

No matter how skillfully you remove that sticker and how adept you are at re-affixing it to the speaker, it will never look like it does at this moment.

I just finished examining four Super Champs of near-identical vintage to yours on Ebay. While the photos in the listings were not as detailed as I would've preferred, each amp's speaker frame looked identical to yours, with an identical decal on the magnet. I'll bet a C-note that yours is OEM to the amp.

But if you simply must persist to assuage your curiosity then by all means, carry on.

Arjay

LOL, hmmmm, you may be right here. As I always obsess like this. Probably best to just leave it alone. DAMN, man, now I'm confused. :? :lol: What to do ?

You are so right though, curiosity will kill this mint speaker. Hey, did any of those on eBay you mentioned have the date codes on them ? If not, then that may be a hint there. Maybe at this time the manufacture decided to put the dates where the sticker goes ? What a :idea: they had... jeeez :shock:


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Post subject: Re: Help Identify If This Speaker Is Original To Unit
Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:25 am
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No, no codes visible. The pics were not large enough nor of sufficient resolution to reveal anything beyond the fact that the frame, magnet structure, and decal were identical to yours.

I've encountered identical situations to yours with other vintage speakers, especially CTS-made alnico 10's from '60s and '70s era Super Reverb amps (part or all of the date code was obscured by the Fender decal). In those cases I left the decal in situ and merely had them re-coned for use.

HTH

Arjay

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