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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 12:42 am
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Filter caps are never a permanent component in a vintage amp to be played and considered dependable.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:01 am
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kc9ejn wrote:
This seems a bit over the top as I made no mention of needing filter caps replaced (they seem fine to me)


You mean, they seem fine by looking at them? Trust your amp tech, all these caps have to be replaced.

Cheers

David

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:27 am
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It is for this reason, I am soo thankful to Fender for having these message boards! In this the age of "buyer beware", I was thinking the tech might have been trying to "upsell" me on the filter caps. I also thank all of you for setting me straight. I just didn't want to end up like the proverbial guy who took his car in for a tune up and ended up paying for new "muffler bearings" LOL!


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 5:20 am
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It takes some time learning how to maintain a vintage amp,and not every "tech" understands them either....you want to be able to keep it as original as possible,but you want it to be reliable and nothing go up in smoke.
You will get many differing opinions regarding what to keep as original,some people would rather just change every cap and resistor to get it in an "as new" condition as far as the components go,but when it comes to transformers the general concensus is to keep them original if possible,because the output transformer has a lot to do with that mojo tone.
Really the best thing to do,imho....is to take it a few small steps at a time,change the filter caps and any bad cap in the circuitry,and see how it sounds...when you bring one part up to spec,another might go down,that's the nature of those things.
There's some guys here,(I'm not a tech),that know their business and are really worth listening to.....you're at the right place. :D


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:20 am
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Going to take the amp to the tech tomorrow. I quickly realized this is a job for the pros. It's in good shape, I don't want to put the "golden screwdriver" to it!
Thanks again to everyone... will let everyone know how it turns out! :)


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:26 am
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A wise decision, sir.

Let us know how it turns out.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2011 8:43 pm
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FYI... Look at this TV Front Pro Tweed on EBay. Note the serial number. FWIW, my 1948 Champion has hand written serial number 1502.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/FENDER-PRO-TWEE ... 3f0e8b4be6


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:00 pm
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That is a sweet example! Too bad we can't have em all!
On another note, the tech. called me today to discuss my repairs. We are going with a replacement power cord, two new inputs with resistors & NOS tubes. He is going to test each filter cap and replace the ones that need it (in an attempt to keep it as original as possible). He also mentioned the speaker looked fine but if it needs it, they would re-cone it on site :)


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:24 pm
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Sounds like a logical-and-comprehensive plan to make the amp playable once more.

Best of luck, let us know how it turns out.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:55 pm
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Update.
I got the princeton back from the shop today.. WOW!!! My strat never sang so sweetly. I swear it sounds like church bells ringing!
There was an irregularity with the tube chart / wiring. The tech ordered the correct tube according to the chart but the preamp tube socket was wired to accommodate a 6SL7 tube when in fact a 6SC7 was listed on the tube chart. The tech then explained that in those days, Leo would take a chassis to his workshop and tinker around looking for sounds he liked better. He would then put them into production and they would have to use the labels with the older tube configuration until they got new ones in. He went on to say that this was the most likely case as he could find no evidence of a re-wire on the socket itself.
I am delighted at the results of his efforts! It sounds so smooth and clear; I can hardly contain myself LOL! All that is left is the replacement handle (which should be here Monday) and finding matching screws for the back panels.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:20 am
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Sounds swell!

And it sounds like you've found a great amp tech as well. Not many are aware of Leo's penchant back in the day for "tinkering" right on the production line and how these (mostly undocumented) changes cause servicing issues today. Keep that fellow's number handy -- nowadays, expertise like his is the exception rather than the rule.

Rawk on!

8)

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:38 am
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Great!
And like Bro. Arjay said,not many know the real history of these amps and the surprises you will find when comparing the schematics,tube chart and actual circuitry,that's what makes some of these really unique from the rest.
Glad you found a knowledgable tech.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:21 am
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Oh yeah! I’ve got him on speed dial LOL!
I was especially impressed by the way he took the time to explain each and every decision he took in the repair. Being an amateur radio operator, I have a basic understanding of circuitry etc... but did get lost on some of the older technology. He explained everything in great detail. I only half jokingly asked if he wanted an apprentice… Oh well was worth a shot, right? :D
One thing I found interesting and had never encountered before now is the tone knob acts as the power switch. It’s just another neat instance with this amp.
Anyway, here is a couple shots of the updated chassis and back.
Image
Image


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:44 pm
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A lot of old tube gear from back in the day (portable phonographs, console radios, and the like) incorporated their on/off switch with the unit's tone control.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:45 am
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The amp looks fantastic. Looks like your tech did a great job. Nice clean work.

Enjoy the heirloom. Its pretty cool having this kind of stuff where you can actually use it and think about your Dad at the same time. You should be proud to have rescued and restored this baby to working order.

What do you think of the amp - in sonic terms?
(borrowing that sonic term for Retroverbial :wink: )


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