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Post subject: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:56 pm
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I was hoping to find a guru on here who can help me out. After digging through mountians of long-forgotten items in my Mother's attic, in among the discarded picture frames and dusty filth, I finally located the little cloth-covered guitar amp my Dad used to use.
OK, I'll get to the point. The tag on the inside tells me it's a "Princeton" with a hand written serial number of "1239". My question is when was it made? I've done the obligatory google searches with each falling just short of useful information. Most of them starting with the 1953s sighting the “label containing the tube diagram”. This amp has a label with tube information printed vertically, no diagram. I have pictures if needed, just email.
Any information you can provide would be most appreciated!


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:07 pm
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The really early tweeds never received a date stamp on their tube charts. Dating your 5A2 or 5B2 may require you to disassemble the amp and make note of the EIA manufacturer codes stamped on the control pots and (if it's original to the amp) the speaker. These numbers contain coded dating information. The Triad transformers will likely not have an EIA code or a date on them.

Best of luck, HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:32 pm
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Thanx Arjay. I've done enough digging on here to know its a "TV Front" made from 1948-1953 according to the vintage guitar collector website. http://home.provide.net/~cfh/fender2.html This helps some.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 8:37 pm
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Cool amp man!...what kind of shape is it in?
Can you post some pics?


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:17 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Cool amp man!...what kind of shape is it in?
Can you post some pics?


+1!

We'd love to see some pics.

8)

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:51 am
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It’s not in too bad a-shape for being buried in an attic under assorted rubble for 25+ years. The tweed is well worn but remarkably not torn at all. It does however, have some black staining on either side of the speaker and cloth speaker cover is stretched from laying on a picture frame(YIKES)but thankfully not torn. Unsure at this point how I’m going to tackle the cleaning aspect of it. And lastly, the leather handle disintegrated as I was lifting it.
Electronically, it obviously needs tubes… also needs a replacement power cord as the rubber coating is brittle and breaks / splits when bent or moved. The #2 input was removed at some point, so I will need to locate another one as well as the resistor that leads from it (68k I think). All in all, the wiring looks really good. I see no signs of over heating / burning. All the solder joints are still in tact. It even has the original light bulb, filament in tact! So yeah, I cannot wait to hear my strat through it!!
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Sorry for crappy cellphone pix.. lol


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:11 am
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Wow - great find!

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:28 am
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nedorama wrote:
Wow - great find!


+1

I've seen much worse as far as wear-and-tear goes (there was a real wreck on Ebay last night).

:shock:

You might try removing the baffle board, lightly spritzing the center of the grill cloth with some distilled water, then hitting it with an iron set on "low" -- it may remove that dimple from the cloth. Put a phone book wrapped in a white terrycloth towel beneath the baffle to provide a flat semi-rigid surface for the iron and iron on the inside of the cloth.

The tweed may clean up with some 409 or Mr. Clean -- test these solutions on an inconspicuous location such as the bottom of the cab before proceeding.

The handle is toast -- it will need to be replaced. However, be sure to recycle the hardware to the new replacement.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:24 pm
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Thanks Arjay... that method should do well for straightening the cloth out. As far as 409 goes, IDK about all that. I used to work where they bottle 409... I've seen it eat concrete in high concentration. Maybe if it's diluted 100 / 1 and I'd still be very nervous LOL!
Any suggestions as far as parts suppliers? I'm looking for the resistor coming off of the input in particular. I checked my local music store today and he has NOTHING... not even tubes.
Thanks again!!


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:56 pm
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You can find period-correct Allen & Bradley carbon-comp resistors on Ebay -- several vendors offer them. Dittos with tubes.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:22 pm
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OK, I've spent the last couple of hours trying to locate this resistor.... with zero results. I'm beginning to realize what a noob I really am at this amplifier resto. thing... lol Anyway, I have a layout for a 5D2, it calls for a 68K here (1st & 2nd input). This one looks nothing like the 68Ks I've found.... leaving me once again baffled.
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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:11 am
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This might also give some insight also into the amp.

Excellent find and true family heirloom.

BTW - If you feel a bit over your head, its okay to take this to a good amp tech. Go to the local vintage shop or reputable family-owned shop and ask who they use. I have found two good amp techs this way. They typically have a "day time" job and do this work as a side business. That's okay because its not really the type of service business that can sustain itself outside of a large metro area.

Any original parts that are replaced should be kept with the amp. Some collectors want all the original parts.

And yeah..... those old leather handles get a bit testy with age. Never pick-up a vintage tweed amp using the leather handle. Replace it with a new one and store the original.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 5:46 am
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That's a good looking vintage amp,full of mojo character....thanks for the pics,and be careful who you let work on it if you decide to.....there's hacks out there and some really good techs....do your research first. :wink:


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 7:51 pm
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Thanks for the advise everyone! I fully intend on checking reviews, BBB ratings ect... for anyone I might think about letting work on it.
Case in point; I spoke to one gentleman today who in his service quote stated he was going to change all of the filter caps. This seems a bit over the top as I made no mention of needing filter caps replaced (they seem fine to me)..plus this was sight unseen by him. IDK, this may be a common weak point with these older fenders that I am not aware of but the fact that he just added this into the job without giving me his reason for doing so has me second guessing him.


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Post subject: Re: Trouble dating a tweed era princeton
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:15 pm
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That would be the first thing I'd have told you too. All of the old electrolytics have to go -- failed (or failing) filter caps have killed more vintage amps than all other causes combined. Unless you want to keep your Princeton solely as a static decoration for a music room, I'd advise you to let that tech take a good critical look at what you have and render an opinion. You don't have to abide by his recommendations but it's a good bet he'd like to bring that amp back up to full operating specs for you.

JMO

Arjay

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