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Post subject: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:06 pm
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I recently played a 70s fender silverface "vibro champ" amplifier and really loved the sounds I got from it. After trying the various black face and tweed reissues I found I didn't really like them. I've seen some modeling pedals that are supposed to emulate these earlier amps but I have never seen any effects units that produce tones similar to a silverface amplifier.
I don't want to have to buy a new amplifier, does anyone know of a stompbox that will allow me to get these sounds?


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:20 pm
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The thing about FX boxes and emulators is that they try to achieve a close approximation to a particular piece of gear. If you've tried other emulatiors and they are not close enough for your taste then I'd suggest that it's not just possible but rather entirely probable that you won't ever find anything on the market that gets close enough for your ears. Don't worry. That's a good thing. Unfortunately it likely means you're going to have to open up your pocket book a little wider. If you require a Silver Face Vibro Champ tone and nothing else comes close enough then you'll just have to get a Silver Face Vibro Champ. Welcome to the wonderful world of GAS.

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:21 pm
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BMW-KTM wrote:
The thing about FX boxes and emulators is that they try to achieve a close approximation to a particular piece of gear. If you've tried other emulatiors and they are not close enough for your taste then I'd suggest that it's not just possible but rather entirely probable that you won't ever find anything on the market that gets close enough for your ears. Don't worry. That's a good thing. Unfortunately it likely means you're going to have to open up your pocket book a little wider. If you require a Silver Face Vibro Champ tone and nothing else comes close enough then you'll just have to get a Silver Face Vibro Champ. Welcome to the wonderful world of GAS.


+1

I've never played any of those simulator pedals that really accomplished the mission. Some sounded "good", yes. But as a rule, they're all "also-rans" when it comes to authenticity. YMMV

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 5:44 pm
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It's the "Vibro" part that really is hard to duplicate on a small scale amp. The Champ is built on Class "A," single-ended topology. You can build one of those DIY fairly easily. Two trannies, one 12AX7, and one power tube (EL84, 6V6GT, 5881, etc).

Now, add Leo's 12AX7 driven tremolo/vibrato section to the mix (see schemo).

You'll really will have a difficult time emulating the tone of this puppy with stomp boxes and fancy emulators. Which sometimes end up costing as much as going out and buying a good used VC. Then, restoring it. In my very-biased opinion.

http://ampwares.com/schematics/champ_vibro_aa764.pdf

Oh, did I mention the wood used in the cab. Or the speaker(s)?

I have several SF and BF VC's. I like to revert them back to the tweed 5F1 circuit, but keep the vibrato. Plus add a good speaker.

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:38 pm
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Yeah,you ain't gonna get it with a pedal,sorry.
I am a guy who started out on a tweed Champ handed down from my uncle back in the late '60s,then I had some larger Fender amps like a Deluxe Reverb and a Super Reverb and sold them along the line for amps like a Marshall 2x12 combo and a Mesa Boogie,after years of not getting the sound I wanted with many amps I bought a '66 Deluxe Reverb,bam! there it was again,the tone I had in my head but couldn't find with anything other than a Fender.
If you love and want the sound of a vintage Fender amp,that's what you have to buy.


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:39 pm
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Nice amps BMW!!!


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:43 pm
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I'm notifying the grill-cloth police at this very moment.

That's just flat-out wrong!

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:50 am
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It's nicotine stained :lol: :lol: that's what it would say on eBay.
grill police are in route. :mrgreen:


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:19 pm
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Agree with everyone comments about the modeling amps. Had 'em..... hated 'em. They're "okay"... but once you get the real deals.... what's the point :D

The silverface amps are plentiful and can be had for a small amount of change. You can get an SF Champ or Vibro Champ for $250-350 on Craigslist about any day of the week. Keep your eye out. What's a Super Champ XD these day.... $300?

Fabulous tone - Excellent investment!!! I'm saving my pennies for a either a SF Princeton Reverb or SF Deluxe Reverb.

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( I need to do a family photo :lol: )


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:22 pm
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WOW, i have never heard anyone say they like the silverface sound over a blackface


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:02 pm
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Arjay, Yeah that SF shown came outta a busted case. All particle board by that era & once they start to go crumbly bad.... well you know the story. Got this JD Newell cab off Ebay with the wheat grille. And it looks pretty nice.

Anyhow, there is very little difference between the BF and SF VC's---except the "AB" models (whether BF or SF) have 40/20/20 cap cans. Run slightly higher B+. And sound like it. The "AA" models all run 20/20/20 cans and sound better (IMHO).

The best mods that I've been taught to use are: better speaker, bypass the tone stack, and revert the global feedback to 5F1 circuitry. Then, the amp has a mellower, sweeter tone at low volumes. And a slightly slower onset of overdrive (more like a tweed). Yet, the good bass of the BF/SF models.


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:51 pm
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joncarr1979 wrote:
WOW, i have never heard anyone say they like the silverface sound over a blackface

If you're talking about the original poster,he said he tried the BF and Tweed reissues,I would say a good SF would trump a stock reissue.
just my two cents worth,ymmv.


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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:57 pm
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I like my tweed. :wink: Now if only I could get one. :lol:

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:42 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Arjay, Yeah that SF shown came outta a busted case. All particle board by that era & once they start to go crumbly bad.... well you know the story. Got this JD Newell cab off Ebay with the wheat grille. And it looks pretty nice.


Steve, I might have a suitable piece of silverface-era cloth in my stash -- it'd be a scrap end left over from another project that might be big enough for a Vibro Champ. I'll take a look if you wish.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: How do I get that silverface sound?
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:09 am
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joncarr1979 wrote:
WOW, i have never heard anyone say they like the silverface sound over a blackface


Not really a matter of preference, but those small watt SF amps sound pretty nice. I have an SF Princeton (no-verb). Its a great sounding amp - and I got it for $325 off of Craigslist. My son has it in his room hooked-up to a 2 x 12 Jet City Cab with Eminence drivers. I can't wait for him to go to college so I can steal it back.

IMHO - the demand for those SF amps is going increase - particularly at their current prices. So get them now while the gettin' is good. :lol:


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