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Post subject: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:44 am
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Ok, the TSRI 6V6GT have been in my Princeton for a good week or so. Prolly has 15-20 hours on them. They test at 26.8 and 28.4mA at 415 plate volts--- after 30 min warmup. So, they've dropped from the original 30+mA bias point, after some use.

No signs of red plates. No early distortion. Sounds very much like a good set of RCA GTA breaking-in. A bit cleaner than my Hytron 6V6GTY above "6" volume. All is well, so far.

A good match for the Celestion Alnico Gold speakers. Which tend to be too warm in the midrange, with NOS grey glass 6V6GT's.

Will keep you up-to-date, after say 50 hours of use.


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:15 am
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Addendum (Bad News): I turned amp off. After pulling the tube off the bias tester. To remove the tester (Allesandro). One tube immediately shorted out. Very bright flashes at top and bottom of tube with LOUD crackling noise.

I switched sides and the shorted tube went with the change. I put in another new TSRI I had... and all is ok. 28.5mA bias. Do you know if these tubes have issues with mil spec Amphenol sockets? I replaced the original worn out sockets with new 1952 NOS Amphenols.

I beginning to think these tubes don't like to have their bias checked.


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:46 am
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I'm beginning to think they're absolutely a POS and not worth the risk from everything you've posted. :?


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:12 pm
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Aspiring Musician
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I would try the TAD's 6v6's


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:17 pm
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joncarr1979 wrote:
I would try the TAD's 6v6's


+1

Something about those TSRI's is rotten.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:11 pm
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I have compared the TAD 6v6's and 6l6's vs vintage RCA tubes which these are copied off of and i can not tell a difference i think these are the best production tubes out there right now. JJ's just sound sterile to these tubes.They are a perfect replacement for vintage amps.


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:20 pm
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JJ's 6L6's used to sound pretty righteous. I haven't had occasion to install any in quite some time though. Wonder what happened......?

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:09 pm
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joncarr1979 wrote:
I have compared the TAD 6v6's and 6l6's vs vintage RCA tubes which these are copied off of and i can not tell a difference i think these are the best production tubes out there right now. JJ's just sound sterile to these tubes.They are a perfect replacement for vintage amps.

+1

That was my experience with both TAD and JJ. My RCA 6V6 are taking a break and I'm enjoying the TADs in there.

The TAD 6L6s also work for me, but I did have the same problem as BMW, one of the tubes shorted out on the first set when I was checking the bias after a couple weeks, but that could've been my amp... so far so good with the new set.


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 12:13 am
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Hi hope this is a one off thing with these tubes. I have a set in a DRRI and they sound pretty good to me. i only have about 20 hours on them and no signs of trouble for now. mite change them down the track to sum NOS radiotron 6v6gts see how they sound and last in my amp. Got them for a good price too..Chers..From..Aus...


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:20 pm
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Quote from Rob Mercure (Missions Labs)

"Actually the JJ 6V6 is specifically designed for higher plate and screen voltages as they realized that the replacement market for 6V6 pretty much is guitar amps. Added: Unfortunately JJ's QA on their power tubes and rectifiers has recently been questionable at best. Be sure you buy from someone who tests them in "real" amplififer enviroment (current and voltage of an amp and not a tube tester).


While 6V6s were ubiquitous - some TVs used them for the audio, video, and vertical outputs - and they were widely used in radios there was very little use in the hifi equipment of the day. Since there are far fewer folks restoring TVs and since radios used many other output tubes this is where the 6V6 wound up.

No someone will probably take offense but having done repairs when tubes were the dominant active component - mostly TVs then but also a variety of audio - and all the major American manufacturers were still in production - there really wasn't considered anything "special" about the Tungsol 6V6. All 6V6GT went dirt cheap, at the time.

It was a good tube but we'd found at the shop (with personell going back to the late 1940s) that Sylvanias caused fewer call backs, i.e., failed the fewest and that TS fell in with RCA and GE and CBS/Hytron (formerly Ken-Rad) as the "average reliablity" second tier.

We then, and I since, have noticed that many Fenders "eat" output tubes especially 6V6s and that the JJs despite their "still settling in" problems (when they first came out they were damned near perfect in QA - then something happened, maybe corporate but most like stage level politics). The JJs sound much like the Sylvanias although I'm yet to hear the JJs with as many hours on them so I'm comparing against a few NOS Sylvanias from my collection/repair stock.

Most companies who sell tubes will allow a defective tube to be returned (much harder in the glory days) and if you've got a corporate account and buy a few consistently usually the single salesperson your account is assigned to will pull and visually inspect each tube before shipping which catches bad pens, loose glass chunks, etc. If you're willing to pay the price of matching - a couple of dollars/ at most - whether you need matching of not you'll get a tube that's been pulled out of the box, inspected, and used in circuit. Usually around 1/2 hour of heating and then 30 seconds to 5 minutes of signal through (depending on the degree of automation)but at least you get a tested tube.

And, again, my rant: These aren't "re-issues" as one cannot logically reissue something you didn't issue them to start with. Tungsol has been out of business for decades with none of the original machinery, materials, nor personell involves in these copies. So the supposed RIs are at best "inspired by," or "based on," or if they can meet the greater standad "copies." But, dammit, not reissues.

Last note: Factoring into the sound, reliability, and quality of any tube is the specific materials used. While the manmade ones can be accurately reproduced the natural ones, specifically the mica, cannot. Each site of the igneous rock is different with changed in a bed from frequent if you've ever collected minerals and different micas have different thermal characteristics and also release different gasses/ratios when heated or subject to a vacuum. Much of the mica used by tube manufacturers came for deposits near Poplar, NC near where I grew up. I've walked what part of the old mine isn't covered/reclaimed and see the variety.

At the mica works slabs of a consistent visual quality and simple quick outgassing were then cut and split - by hand, mostly by women - and then sent to the tube, and other, manufacturers. The tube maker then finished splitting to thickness, cutting round the outside to shape (tricky to cut) and punching the tube element holes before sending these raw materials to the tube assembly line. So, without access to this particular mica (reported, in Tungsol's original literature by the way, to be unique in all the world) there is no way you can even make a truly accurate copy of a TS tube much less a "re-issue." It would take an incredible degree of testing coupled with an impossible degree of coincidence to find a mica that performed like the selected portion of the now gone Poplar load (TS and other US manufactures seemed to use two varieties from those beds, one as clear as water, and the other a darker smokier one but within these two types is great consistency).

Slightly rambling but some tube brands have become too "iconic" and every manufacturer made a bad tube now and then as well as also settling for "good enough" for some varieties that were expensive to construct but very few made (unless the military was paying for them)."


take home lesson: Keep hunting for good NOS 6V6GT tubes


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:28 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
"...Be sure you buy from someone who tests them in "real" amplifier environment (current and voltage of an amp and not a tube tester).


GTs 8)

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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:54 pm
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That was interesting BMW... :)


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:36 pm
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Final word (I hope) on this tube. I sent the shorted tube back to the seller. He sent an email back to me saying the glass envelope was cracked & that's why it failed.

I remove and replace ALL tubes using a Mechanix glove (esp when they are hot). That tube never touched the floor between biasing and re-insertion.

Now, when I packed the tube... it had no crack, no signs of white powder in the guts---double packed, as if it were a new tube. Placed into it's original container and taped shut.

I would only say, if you like this tube... be sure you have spares before going out on any gigs. Spent almost as much $$$ on shipping as the tubes cost. And leave the whole mess at that.


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:50 pm
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Last fricking post about these tubes (I promise)... Sorry for the poor quality photos.

Put in one more newly matched set and the left tube almost immediately went red plate (passing 42mA current). The other passed 34mA and was fine. But the amp ran extremely hot, for only be on for a 10-15 minutes.

Image

Replaced them with the Magnavox 6V6GT that were already in the amp. (32mA and 36mA). Did NO adjusting.

Image


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Post subject: Re: TungSol RI 6V6GT update
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:57 am
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Seems pretty obvious at this point that those Tung-Sol ponies ain't meant to be saddled and ridden, pardner.

Time to cull them from the herd and send them to the "glue factory".

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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