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Post subject: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:15 pm
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Anyone interested in following a photographic log of my Leslie 14L rebuild? It came out of some kind of home organ, pulled out like a big drawer. Out of the organ it was as stable as a fruit crate. I have a cabinet built; still have to cover it. I am modifying the 14" wide X 14" high plywood rotor (designed for a 6X9 Jensen) to hold a 10" speaker.

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:31 pm
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Sure, I'd like to see the show.

Is the 10" you're using a full-range driver or does the 14L have a separate rotating horn tweeter?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:34 pm
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Love to see a cool build, the more detail pix and step by steps the better! 8)


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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:22 pm
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Quote:
Retroverbial wrote:
Sure, I'd like to see the show.

Is the 10" you're using a full-range driver or does the 14L have a separate rotating horn tweeter?

Arjay



You are picturing the 120-style set-up, where the speaker is fixed and the rotor spins above it, with a horn that spins over the throat of a driver. The design of the 14L is a 14"x14" wooden drum housing a 6x9 8ohm speaker, and the drum (speaker) spins. So it is just one speaker.
Here is the basic story:
It sounded really good, but driving it with a 15 watt amp meant that pushing it to clipping was abusive, and I re-coned the speaker at least 5 times (friends in the re-cone biz), but ultimately could no longer find a 6x9 paper-edged recone kit with the right diameter voice coil. So I shelved it in 2006, and used an H&K Rotosphere instead. I just recently realized that the drum could be modified to carry a 10" speaker, which means I also have to have a dummy speaker of the same weight on the other side of the drum to counterbalance it. I haven't cut the drum yet, but I'm ready to go. It will not be able to ramp up very fast; it used to take about 7 seconds each way, according to the label, with the 6x9 and it's counterweight. In practice it took longer to slow down than to speed up. With the additional weight of 2-10" speakers it will be even longer, but once it is going, the momentum works in your favor. I put a small Variac in a box on the floor, and can set it to reduce the power to the motor so that when it is ramping up, I can hold the rotation at a tempo that works for the situation. I replaced the cloth belt (made to slip) with a 10-1/2" O-ring that won't slip.
It sounds better than any processor, and I've tried everything. Real Doppler Effect in the air is the only way to go!

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:28 pm
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ashtone wrote:
Real Doppler Effect in the air is the only way to go!


+1!

Decades ago (ie: before the onset of degenerative osteo-arthritis) I used a Vibratone......

Image

Alas, today it's a pedal.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 4:32 pm
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Nice Leslie 16! I have the exact same model, if you know anyone interested. With cover.

Here are some pictures of what I have done so far.
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n48 ... 20rebuild/

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:14 pm
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I have a Leslie Model16 too loaded with a JBL K-120 and when I put my '69 Bassman or Marshall JCM 800 4210 through it it really throws the sound around the room.

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild, and why I am dumping the Leslie 16
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:29 am
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Most of the following expands on what I wrote above. Sorry, I thought I was on a different forum.

I have a Leslie 16 that someone had modded to have a JBL D-130F in it. I restored it to hold a 10", like a 16 would have (a Leslie 18 had a 12"). These things throw vertically, unlike a 120 and most other Leslies, which project horizontally. I tried laying it on it's side to get the horizontal effect, but it wouldn't work in that position very well. The bearing is designed to support the drum in a vertical position, and the drum just doesn't work right on it's side. One big issue I had was the Doppler effect generated by a Vibratone is nothing like the rich texture a standard Leslie provides, mainly from the upper horn, which is perfect for guitar frequencies. A Vibratone is more like a tremolo or an old Rotovibe. Another thing I didn't like was the short "rise time"; the Styrofoam drum in the 16 gets up to full speed in about 2 or 3 seconds. When it's speeding up, each rotation of the drum is progressively shorter, and the dimension created by the shifting and overlapping Doppler cycles are what I love about the effect.
I put the 16 in storage and got a Hughes and Kettner Rotosphere. If you use it with two amps in stereo, it sounds pretty good, but I used it mono. Playing in a band with a CD to promote, we travelled doing lots of one-nighters. Tear down and set up takes twice as long with the stereo rig, and I wasn't into it. So the Rotosphere was it until some guy showed up with this weird Leslie 14L. It was a flimsy frame-like "drawer" box with a solid bottom and back end, one-inch square sticks framing the top and front, and a 14" wooden drum with a 6x9 8-ohm Jensen speaker. The whole thing was about 16"W x 16"H x 24"D. The two-speed motor was there, but no control box with the relay to control it. He said it came out of a console organ, and he only wanted $20.00 for it, so why not?
When I rigged it up and plugged it in, it sounded amazing! The speaker was spinning, not like the 16 where the speaker is stationary and the drum spins. The difference was just what I wanted, and the weight of the drum made the rise time much slower. I took the control box from the Leslie 16, screwed it onto the 14L, and with some other improvements (like 1/4" jacks instead of multi-pin connectors) I was good to go.
I eventually added a Variac on the A.C. line so I could hold the rotation at any point during the 7 or 8 second rise time. (A Variac changes voltage without effecting amperage. Using a dimmer-type control to slow down a motor will burn out the motor because the amperage also changes). Hammond players achieve a medium speed on a Leslie by manipulating the fast/slow switch on the organ with one hand while they continue to play with the other. The Rotosphere has a button to do this, too, but it is almost impossible to hold the speed steady with an on/off footswitch. The Variac did the trick flawlessly.
So now I had my regular rig (pedalboard, amp and cables), plus...
A/B box
Leslie 14L plus a stand
Variac footswitch (10"x6"x4")
second amp for Leslie (Super Champ)
3 A.C. cables
2 signal cables (to amp, to Leslie)
a second microphone
and an extra 30 minutes of set up, 20 more for tear down.
So I actually had more stuff to set up than I did with the 16! But I didn't really care, because this thing sounded so damn good! I had a real Leslie that I could lift by myself, and I used it for 5 years like this. Ultimately it started to fall apart due to the fact it was designed to be inside an organ, not bouncing around on it's own. The flimsy frame it was built on couldn't hang, so I retired it to my practice room and only took it out for recording. I went back to the Rotosphere for my Leslie effect onstage.
Now I'm building a proper cabinet for it, and here's a link to the photo journal I'm posting in the "amps before '84" section:
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n48 ... 20rebuild/
I'm modifying the drum to hold a 10" speaker; the 6x9 has been re-coned 5 times and even though I learned how to do it myself, I can't find the re-cone kit anymore.

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Last edited by ashtone on Sun May 01, 2011 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:42 am
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And that toy dinosaur in the pic fits precisely where in the scheme of things......?

:mrgreen:

Nice Strat, BTW. "Taos Turquoise"?

Rawk on!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 10:53 pm
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Man, that is a lot of work and TLC. If you could post a sound bite afterwards.... :D

I'm going to get a Leslie one day. Do you think a romantic get-away dinner in Monterey, CA will "convince" the sig other?

She's looking at white (ala Joan Jett) Gibson Melody Maker. Anyone have one of these axe? What is a good year?


Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Sun May 01, 2011 11:16 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Do you think a romantic get-away dinner in Monterey, CA will "convince" the sig other?


If you toss in the Wine Fest at Paso Robles on the return trip she might just go for it.

:lol:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:10 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
And that toy dinosaur in the pic fits precisely where in the scheme of things......?

:mrgreen:

Nice Strat, BTW. "Taos Turquoise"?

Rawk on!

Arjay


Ha! If I took a wider shot, you would see about 30 more dinos. I didn't notice it until I was edititng my post. My 3-year-old is a budding dino expert. Ever hear a 3-year-old say "Arthrocanthrosaurus"?

As for the color, it is Bahama Green from 1988.

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 11:16 am
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Hell, I have problems enough with "pterodactyl"!

:lol:

Love that Bahama Green.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 12:37 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Man, that is a lot of work and TLC. If you could post a sound bite afterwards.... :D

I have something from the old days on a CD; I'll try to dig that out and figure out how to transfer it to the post. I think it was close-mic'ed, if I remember, so it had an "in and out" quality on the recording, but you can hear the sound for sure.

Quote:
She's looking at white (ala Joan Jett) Gibson Melody Maker. Anyone have one of these axe? What is a good year?

Do you mean an official Joan Jett Model, or a Melody Maker of the same vintage you can use to build one? Her original guitar is one of the later models, with a slightly less "rounded" lower bout and sharper horns. I think you could find one of those that doesn't have the original finish on it fairly cheaply. Most have tuner upgrades that also lower the price. A nice one (single pickup) in original condition is only slightly more than a J.J. Signature Model, according to my 5-minute search on Ebay. I am assuming that you could do all the work yourself; paying a luthier blows all this out of the water.
In my shop I have a two-pickup '63 model that used to belong to Elvin Bishop's son. This guitar was given to my close friend Shauna by the Jr. Mr. Bishop. Sorry; I don't know his name. Sadly, he passed away shortly thereafter, If I was informed correctly. It was stripped, but it's all there. She is having me re-fin it in Surf Green, with two Lace Sensors (no routing needed), a MOTO pearl pickgaurd and thin MOTO pearl headstock overlay with a real gold "Gibson" logo decal. I've had the decal since the '70's, and can't think of a better place to use it. I talked her out of the humbucking mod due to the fact that the guitar has some history, and made all my decisions based on being able to restore it in the future. What if Elvin wanted to get it back someday? Here's a picture of it as it sits now...
http://s1136.photobucket.com/albums/n48 ... 20rebuild/

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Post subject: Re: Leslie 14 rebuild
Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 2:09 pm
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That Melody Maker reminds me of mine -- the first "decent" guitar I owned after my tenure with the Teisco. It'd been roundly used and abused by previous owners, having been routed for a pair of Gibson PAF's and the neck tenon repaired by doweling. It didn't look or sound bad but it never intonated correctly with the combo bridge/tailpiece. Yours should turn out fine with the surf green refin.

Arjay

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