It is currently Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:44 pm

All times are UTC - 7 hours



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
Post subject: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:47 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
The way we actually hear is heavily influenced by psychology.

I saw a great video a while ago where a pro engineer debunked many audio myths, from "backward masked" satanic messages to tube vs. solid state to noise floors to higher sampling rates and bit depths.

One experiment he described was a tube vs. solid state listening test where the tube amp wasn't even hooked up to the speakers (though the tubes were glowing) yet **every** audiophile liked the tube amp better and **every** engineer like the solid state amp better. They were always listening to the same amp! But since they saw two amps in front of them and watched the guy flip a switch, their brains were convinced the sound was changing.

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Fender Play Winter Sale 2020
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 6:55 am
Offline
Roadie
Roadie

Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:05 am
Posts: 249
Premier guitar did about a 3 month article about the pyschology of tone last year. Check em out.
www.premierguitar.com


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:18 am
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Yeah but when I'm plugged into my amps I know what I'm hearing and how to get it the way I want it. :)
I get all pysched out when I don't hear what I want to. :lol:


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:10 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
Miami Mike wrote:
The way we actually hear is heavily influenced by psychology.

I saw a great video a while ago where a pro engineer debunked many audio myths, from "backward masked" satanic messages to tube vs. solid state to noise floors to higher sampling rates and bit depths.

One experiment he described was a tube vs. solid state listening test where the tube amp wasn't even hooked up to the speakers (though the tubes were glowing) yet **every** audiophile liked the tube amp better and **every** engineer like the solid state amp better. They were always listening to the same amp! But since they saw two amps in front of them and watched the guy flip a switch, their brains were convinced the sound was changing.


That is not a valid test. Were the amps playing through the same speakers? Were the amps operating at a clean level below the point of clipping? Were their volumes balanced within 0.5 dB of each other? A double blind test under the above conditions is required to have any true meaning. I'm not claiming that the results would or would not be the same, but that test does not really prove anything.

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:33 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
tfunk182 wrote:
Premier guitar did about a 3 month article about the pyschology of tone last year. Check em out.
http://www.premierguitar.com


Intersting - - thanx for posting!

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:44 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
The placebo effect even applies to hearing, that is fascinating! Never thought about that until now. Interesting post Miami Mike. :)

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 2:55 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
bluesky636 wrote:
...Were the amps playing through the same speakers? ...


That is the simple beauty of it, it was the exact same sound, same amp/speaker/volume, as there was only one amp actually producing sound. The only "difference" is that the observers saw someone flip a switch and they were told/assumed that it was a different amp. I see what you mean about the test not really proving that a tube amp and ss amp sound the same though, I agree.

Just like the fact that most Americans think that the law requires them to pay Federal income taxes when there is no such law at all, we've been hoodwinked, and had it forced on us by crooks (the government said...). The perception of the general public is all that matters for the crooks that have taken over the country. :idea:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 4:16 pm
Offline
Rock Star
Rock Star

Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2010 2:37 pm
Posts: 8708
Location: Natural Bridge, Virginia
shimmilou wrote:
bluesky636 wrote:
...Were the amps playing through the same speakers? ...


That is the simple beauty of it, it was the exact same sound, same amp/speaker/volume, as there was only one amp actually producing sound. The only "difference" is that the observers saw someone flip a switch and they were told/assumed that it was a different amp. I see what you mean about the test not really proving that a tube amp and ss amp sound the same though, I agree.


And the same reason why the louder of two speakers sounds better.

Ummm, let's leave politics out of this, shall we? :wink:

_________________
Bill

Image


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:29 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
shimmilou wrote:
The placebo effect even applies to hearing, that is fascinating! Never thought about that until now. Interesting post Miami Mike. :)


Yes...and I agree, let's not talk politics, religion or hate here.

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:48 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 1467
Location: deep down in Florida...
I let my ears be the judge of good tone... when I hear good tone, whether it's a live band or even a CD, I check what amp or guitar were used after I like the tone. Psychology has nothing to do with it for me...

I've seen and heard amps that I knew should sound good, but I will admit it if it didn't sound good and will usually tell the owner something's not right with their amp :) most of the time I was right and some fix or upgrade was needed to make it sound right.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:44 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
Yeah, I guess that this is a forum for....Vintage Guitar amplifiers.......should we limit the discussion to that subject? :lol:

No politics, religion or hate, just a fact stated as an analogy, not looking for a debate, we started off being off topic with this thread anyway, don't mind if anyone disagrees, peace! :)

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:00 pm
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:51 pm
Posts: 25353
Location: Witness Protection Program
No worries...the experiment was done with a Vintage Fender amp...the reason why I posted it here.

Peace!

_________________
Being able to play and enjoy music is a gift that's often taken for granted.

Don't leave home without it!


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:19 am
Offline
Aspiring Musician
Aspiring Musician

Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:07 pm
Posts: 427
That is an interesting experiment and does shed some light on the psychology of things, BUT it doesn't tell us if people would really prefer the sound of a tube amp if they heard it.
If they actually got to hear the tube amp and the solid state without seeing it would really determine that.
Plus when your talking about guitar amps it's a little more complicated then just playing a music clip through an amp. An amp reacts to your playing and vise versa, so you really have to play it to see how it reacts to things like pick dynamics and gain changes (and distortion plays a big part)

On the other subject, weather you feel it’s fair or not, tax evasion can land you in prison and for that reason at least it’s NOT dumb to pay your taxes. It IS considered law and the statute was passed by congress.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:44 am
Offline
Rock Icon
Rock Icon
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 1:20 pm
Posts: 9640
Location: Indiana
eddie_bowers wrote:
...On the other subject, weather you feel it’s fair or not, tax evasion can land you in prison and for that reason at least it’s NOT dumb to pay your taxes. It IS considered law and the statute was passed by congress.


No law or statute has been passed by Congress to tax a person's income, that's only what we were told, it's a lie, there is no such law. If there were such a law, it could be easily stated or referenced, it does not exist. The 16th amendment was not properly ratified to begin with, per the Constitution. And the Supreme court has ruled on at least three separate occasions that the 16th amendment does not apply to individuals income, but rather applies to corporate profits. The rulings stated that an individuals income was not a profit, but is an even exchange, work for payment, therefore not federally taxable under any law. Oh, I know very well the heavy handed tactics of the IRS, and I pay the extortion money. But, the fact that I pay doesn't make it legal. If you have some time, search for the Supreme Court rulings for yourself. :idea:

_________________
---> "The amp should be SWITCHED OFF AND UNPLUGGED before you do this!" <---

Por favor, disculpe mi español, no se llega a la práctica con mucha frecuencia.


Top
Profile
Post subject: Re: About tone and psychology...
Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:01 am
Offline
Professional Musician
Professional Musician

Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:00 pm
Posts: 1389
This test is also called "hidden test" for wine, you test different glasses of wine from different bottles and you have to reconize high end and low end. You will be surprise by the results exepted for master experts (like people with absolute ear).
8)

_________________
Tissan

*'52 Telecaster RI, '57 Stratocaster RI, Gibson ES175 RI, Washburn Hawk 1980, Epiphone Casino MIK 2000, 57' Deluxe Knotty Alder, BDRI ...*
https://soundcloud.com/pierrou
http://www.youtube.com/user/Jazzenfamille


Top
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours

Fender Play Winter Sale 2020

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: