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Post subject: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:13 am
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Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
HELLO EXPERTS!!!As u know me from my previous threads . When it comes to these fantastic MACHINES (TUBE AMPS) IM AS GREEN AS THEY COME. Now I have 2 problems today with my old friend the 1967 pro reverb (1) the first channel doesnt work a little sound is coming out but not even a 1for volume and this machine is running hotter than hell. I feel like something is gonna melt thats how hot it is. Now yesterday when I fired this baby up the power light came on and NO SOUND WAS COMING OUT!!! Naturally it freaked me out because I looked in the back and all the tubes were lit up .So I imediately took it to a music store he replaced the rectifier tube and said that was the problem. I was so relieved that I decided to throw A WHOLE NEW SET OF TUBES AND PAMPER THIS SWEET MACHINE. I SAID NOTHING BUT THE BEST FOR THIS MACHINE AND THE SET COST ME OVER $200 AMERICAN DOLLARS RUBY TUBES ,TUNG SOL AND SOME RUSSUAN NAME, IS THIS THE REASON PARTLY FOR THE AMP RUNNING HOT? NEW TUBES? Any way Iam quite upset about this and I hope these are common maintence problems for these old machines. I know and read that these amps can get hot after they have been running ,but how hot is too hot before i should get concerned? THANKS!!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:52 am
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Well tubes get hot,and they can get too hot!
Did you get the amp biased when you put the new power tubes in?
If you look at the power tubes and there's red,cherry color glowing on the plates,then they're biased too hot.
Different things can happen,and I'm really not sure why the guy replaced the rectifier tube,what did he tell you?


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:57 am
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koocho wrote:
...I know and read that these amps can get hot after they have been running ,but how hot is too hot before i should get concerned?...


Hi koocho,

Yes, tube amps get very hot. What temperature is your amp when operating, and what are you comparing the temperature with? Why do you think that it is "too hot"? Normally, the output tubes, as well as other parts, will be too hot to touch, that's normal. Are the plates glowing red? :?:

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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:11 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Well tubes get hot,and they can get too hot!
Did you get the amp biased when you put the new power tubes in?
If you look at the power tubes and there's red,cherry color glowing on the plates,then they're biased too hot.
Different things can happen,and I'm really not sure why the guy replaced the rectifier tube,what did he tell you?

OK THIS IS GREAT !!! Im thrilled that your helping me,Now this is what happened(after jamming at330am for about an hour i was pleased that my amp was sounding great .Then later in the day about11am I fired up the pro,the light turns on but it was surprisingly quiet so im fiddling around thinking somethings not plugged in righ,t i checked the back all the tubes were glowing thats when panic ensude (absolutely no sound),i couldnt get an appointment with my amp tech so i brought it in to the local music store, and he suggested it must be a tube but he cou;dnt tell which one, i mentioned to him it must be the tube that isnt lit he said that doesnt matter they can still light up even if there faulty ,so anyway he was fiddling around and i heard some sound and with a great smile and relief i said great what was the problem ,he said the rectifier tube was faulty then i suggested that he might as well change all the tubes. did i get snowed somehow? as an experiment before i brought thhe amp to the musicstore,and and remember these are my first tube amps ,i removed a tube from my 1967deluxe reverb blackface and then proceeded to fire it up and there it was the exact same effect that was happening to the pro .now after replacing the tubes (which by the way i liked the ones that were in before better(?maybe they will sound better after they have been broken in) early this morning the first channel doesnt work andthe amp felt hotter than usual you can feel the heat on your face as soon as u start looking back there .sorry if i was rambling i wanted to give u the whole picture of what happened and im embarresed to say i dont know what amp biasing is. the music store should they of mentioned the biasing after or before installing these tubes? cant u just change your tubes without doing all this? is this why my amp is running hotter b


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:26 am
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shimmilou wrote:
koocho wrote:
...I know and read that these amps can get hot after they have been running ,but how hot is too hot before i should get concerned?...


Hi koocho,

Yes, tube amps get very hot. What temperature is your amp when operating, and what are you comparing the temperature with? Why do you think that it is "too hot"? Normally, the output tubes, as well as other parts, will be too hot to touch, that's normal. Are the plates glowing red? :?:
Thats a good point im comparing it tothe temperature it felt before i put these tubes in Having hardly any experience with tube amps i couldnt compare the temperature from memory of previous experience and ive never even played another tube amp especially a pro reverb A ll that Iknow is ny 1967fenderdeluxe wont get that hot !! (but its a smaller amp) which plates are u refering too? the back face plate is very hot !!!Idont think i could leave my hand there for a minute (im referring to the faceplate with the switches to turn the amp on) Is that normal for it to be that hot? Maybe its just these brand new tubes? Now this is probably unrelated (the first channel not working) but maybe it is?
IM going to fire up the pro now and later give a more accurate(if i can) description of the temperature. As were talking about temperatures all of a sudden my laptop feels like its on fire lol!!! thanks for your help!!1


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:41 am
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First of all I would not turn the amp on until some of us can figure out what the problem could be,or take it back to the guy who replaced the tubes and let him check it out ...the amp shouldn't be hot enough that you feel much heat on your face when you look into the back,you should be able to hold your hand near the tubes and feel warmth much like a light bulb but the tube glass will be way too hot to touch.
Biasing an amp is kind of like adjusting the idle of your car to put it simply,yes you can replace tubes without doing it,but it really needs to be done because if it's not set right the tubes will run hot,and what we are calling cherry plating is if you look at the power tubes you will see a grey (most likely) part inside that is the most noticable thing you usually see,when the amp is on you will see,most of the time an orange glowing wire,filament,but those grey plates ahould not have a red glow on them.
Maybe I or someone can lead you to a link that shows tubes cherry plating and what to look for there,I have seen that somewhere.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:47 am
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Here's a link showing "cherry plating",blue glow and other things.
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html

Biasing is described in many places on the internet.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:25 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Here's a link showing "cherry plating",blue glow and other things.
http://thetubestore.com/blueglow.html

Biasing is described in many places on the internet.

I KNOW THANKS!!!! it means pretty well just adjustingaccording to the strength of the new bulbs something like that ive got that fender book the soul of tone well no i dont think they will discuss amp maintence 101 i got a good ideaof what biasing is i guess the new amps self bias is that correct?


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:36 am
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I'm not sure about the new amps,all of mine except one are vintage.
I don't know where Arjay is....haven't seen him here in a couple of days....maybe he's on vacation...he would have some good advice here.
The Soul of Tone book is great,I like looking at the pictures.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:43 pm
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What bias are you setting the tubes to? And is the bias staying steady with amp at idle (no inpit, volume at zero, speakers connected)? It kinda sounds like either the Bias Power Supply might need a new cap and or diode. Or the contacts between the power tubes and sockets get a little hinky with time and use. Try some contact cleaner between the socket and tube pins. Just a little bit.

Is your amp using the AA165 circuit?

http://www.ampwares.com/schematics/pro_reverb_aa165.pdf


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:43 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
What bias are you setting the tubes to? And is the bias staying steady with amp at idle (no inpit, volume at zero, speakers connected)? It kinda sounds like either the Bias Power Supply might need a new cap and or diode. Or the contacts between the power tubes and sockets get a little hinky with time and use. Try some contact cleaner between the socket and tube pins. Just a little bit.

Is your amp using the AA165 circuit?

http://www.ampwares.com/schematics/pro_reverb_aa165.pdf

Yes Im fairly certain its the AA165 circuit/Thanks for all this great advice )(you guys really know your stuff)and sorry for replieng late im just having some health issues. Anyway, Ive gotton ahold and FINALLY I HAVE AN APPOINTMENT MONDAY!!!!! From what he tells me(MY AMP TECH) is pretty well what you guys have told me ,But Monday it will be fixed and Iwill let u know (if your interested how things turned out) See what im begginning to learn is that these amps can be fixed easily and all these problems if u call them problems are quite common. So I mean not to panic when something isnt functioning properly lol!! .They need some attention especially at there age and SOME TLC . If I was experienced Iprobably would of known why it was running hotter than usual . But the 1st channel is a mystery and im curious to see what thats all ABOUT!!! Thanks again guys!!! Arajjay where are?? I hope everythings good!!!!Until the next time OUT!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:17 am
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First you need to step back and start from square one...
Whats too hot?? Tubes, transformers. what??
Never just throw tubes at an amp without knowing what the issue is first.
Don't trust a music store either IMO....get some knowledge first.
The tubes lighting up just means the heaters are working. Doesn't really mean the tube is "good".
Anyway.....find the source of what you thnk is getting "too hot"...and go from there...
And Becarefull!!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:42 am
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mxvin wrote:
First you need to step back and start from square one...
Whats too hot?? Tubes, transformers. what??
Never just throw tubes at an amp without knowing what the issue is first.
Don't trust a music store either IMO....get some knowledge first.
The tubes lighting up just means the heaters are working. Doesn't really mean the tube is "good".
Anyway.....find the source of what you thnk is getting "too hot"...and go from there...
And Becarefull!!!!!!

Thanks your right!! and thats exactly what im doing. My amp tech has his own bussiness and he really knows his stuff he also builds his own amps. Id love for you to checkout his website at morris amps, just plug in morris amps and go from there ,(im not sure if its .com or.ca or www anyway google morris amps (its in canada welland ontario to be exact and it will just give u an idea who usually takes care of my 2 blackfaces and id love to here your opinion of what you think!!!! (of his amps and stuff) he works with profession musicians on occassion and I believe he lists them on his website. THANKS AGAIN FOR THE GREAT ADVICE!! I know now if he is hard to reach that I can count on your expertise to point in the right direction ttyl,


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Post subject: Re: 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE RUNNING WAY TOO HOT!!!!!!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 10:51 am
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If this is the guy you're talking about koocho,he should have no trouble figuring out what your Pro Reverb needs.
http://www.morrisamps.com/about.php


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