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Post subject: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:34 am
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I know this post will get a large response and am looking for some educated answers. I have a friend who is making quality amps. It sounds amazing and Im told will "only get better" in time. Has anyone owend an amp and played the through it for years? Did the amp tones change....or just your playing....fingers? I know electronics will get older and the cabinet woods will too. But will this seasoned amp get better or is the placibo affect well in tack? Look forward to my brothers in tone world to chime in! Thanks!!


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:09 am
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Hi curtisjamesmusic,

That is an interesting way to put it, but yes, an amp's sound will change over the years, and the sound can improve, to a point, then the sound can start to degrade. As you pointed out, many components, like capacitors especially, will change value over time, changing the sound of the amp, some amps sound better, others sound worse. Also, speakers will change somewhat over time, with the majority of the change being during it's initial break in period. And tubes also age and eventually need to be replaced. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:14 am
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That all makes sense....There is just this big camp out there that believes that amps, like "guitars" sound better with time. "New guitars are tight, bright, unyielding" then there is others who call B.S. on that...for obvious reasons. As for amps you dont hear much about. I know one thing..... "I" season with time. My playing, mind, hands, ears....yes, ears, experiences etc.... But im hard pressed to believe that the discernable ear really hears much of a huge difference with an amp? Amps purchased with so-called vintage tones are really amps that emulate the components of earlier years...right? But does an amp transform itself , and mature, into deeper, fuller, tones?


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:24 pm
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Yeah, I think I see what you mean. It is kinda like that, maybe just a little sweeter tone over time, but I think that the majority of the better sound in the older amps is simply that the older amps had much better quality components and materials as compared to modern amps. So, I wouldn't say that "aging" is really contributing to better tone, it's just that the older amps sounded better to begin with, and many still sound great. :idea:

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:40 pm
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shimmilou wrote:
Hi curtisjamesmusic,

That is an interesting way to put it, but yes, an amp's sound will change over the years, and the sound can improve, to a point, then the sound can start to degrade. As you pointed out, many components, like capacitors especially, will change value over time, changing the sound of the amp, some amps sound better, others sound worse. Also, speakers will change somewhat over time, with the majority of the change being during it's initial break in period. And tubes also age and eventually need to be replaced. :idea:

+1

Right now my 3-month old DRRI sounds much better than when I took it out of the box! :D
And I'm sure for the next few years as the speaker,tubes,resistors, caps etc change the tone will hopefully mellow as well. But, at some point, things will go bad. But as I have read on this Forum by those who have had TUBE amps for many years, things could keep going strong as well!

My 2-year old Line6 amp, sounds exactly as it did back then! :lol:

Treating them right will prolong the life.

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:01 pm
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tyronne wrote:
shimmilou wrote:
Hi curtisjamesmusic,

That is an interesting way to put it, but yes, an amp's sound will change over the years, and the sound can improve, to a point, then the sound can start to degrade. As you pointed out, many components, like capacitors especially, will change value over time, changing the sound of the amp, some amps sound better, others sound worse. Also, speakers will change somewhat over time, with the majority of the change being during it's initial break in period. And tubes also age and eventually need to be replaced. :idea:

+1

Right now my 3-month old DRRI sounds much better than when I took it out of the box! :D
And I'm sure for the next few years as the speaker,tubes,resistors, caps etc change the tone will hopefully mellow as well. But, at some point, things will go bad. But as I have read on this Forum by those who have had TUBE amps for many years, things could keep going strong as well!

My 2-year old Line6 amp, sounds exactly as it did back then! :lol:

Treating them right will prolong the life.


It's more than likely the speaker is broken in. Amps do change in time but electronically and tonally not always for the better. Things do and will fail.

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:06 pm
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yeah,I think that speaker break in is what most people think makes an amp sound better,and that takes a pretty good while.
I really don't buy a lot of the older components are better hype,there's some really good parts being made now,the Fender amps were great to begin with,and they will season in a manner of speaking,but I believe what that amounts to is they have a character of their own in the way the components have drifted voicing the amp....if that makes sense...not all vintage amps are spectacular sounding,but when you do find one,wow.
Most great amp techs will be hesitant to do a lot of changing in an amp with a lot of great tone,replacing only what needs to be changed.


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:21 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
Most great amp techs will be hesitant to do a lot of changing in an amp with a lot of great tone,replacing only what needs to be changed.


My '67 Showman restoration sat -- uncompleted -- on my bench for seven months until I was finally able to secure a matched quartet of NOS Allen & Bradley 470-ohm 1-watt carbon-comp resistors.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:58 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
Most great amp techs will be hesitant to do a lot of changing in an amp with a lot of great tone,replacing only what needs to be changed.


My '67 Showman restoration sat -- uncompleted -- on my bench for seven months until I was finally able to secure a matched quartet of NOS Allen & Bradley 470-ohm 1-watt carbon-comp resistors.

Anything worth doing is worth doing right.

Arjay


Now that is patience!

Art


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:24 pm
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Thanks, Art!

I believe in doing things "by the book" excepting a few rare instances. The Showman is 100% period-correct, with all marginal components replaced by NOS originals. The sole exceptions are the grounded 3-conductor power cable, disabled "death cap" and "ground" switch, and a mix of modern Sprague and F&T caps in the filter and biasing circuits (finding vintage Mallory's is a hopeless exercise).

Visually, all is as it would be the day the amp shipped from Fullerton.

And it sounds heavenly......

Image

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:55 am
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YUP... YUP... YUP. My experience. The IRON is what really ages and gives the amp its unique tone (which may even be different than similar model/age amp). I believe all that electromagnetic magic and degree of saturation by user... shapes the vintage tone.

It's why one shouldn't change out good, well broken in trannies unless they're burned out.

Just my 2-1/2¢ worth of babble.


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:32 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
It's why one shouldn't change out good, well broken in trannies unless they're burned out.


ABSOLUTELY!

Dittos with tone caps (unless they exhibit evidence of DC leakage)!

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:05 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
BMW2002Ti wrote:
It's why one shouldn't change out good, well broken in trannies unless they're burned out.


ABSOLUTELY!

Dittos with tone caps (unless they exhibit evidence of DC leakage)!

Arjay

+1 Most electronic parts were made to strict military spec way back. They needed to be of exceptionally high quality. Today we live in a disposable world where electronic equipment is upgraded and "improved" every other week it seems. We're all convinced we need the latest thing.

Way back things were made to last as long as possible because that's what the consumer expected.

Years ago you would "break things in", now it's just broke. LOL

For me anyway and I know Arjay agrees, nothing sounds better than an old amp brought back up to factory spec. Most times it's the electrolytic caps and maybe a couple resistors. Most of the tone is I believe in the iron. If you lose the factory iron in these old Fender amps it seems some of the magic goes with it. Like I said, speaker break in may be the perception of an amp getting better with time. Just my opinion YMMV.

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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:53 am
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RJ that Showman is beautiful,a piece of art!
It's interesting to hear what everyone says about this subject,honestly I didn't even think about the trannies. :roll:
It all goes into the Mojo of the amp,we toss that word around a lot but with all the parts working as one,I think mojo is a decent word to describe the mystery of how it happens. :lol:


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Post subject: Re: Do amps season with time?
Posted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:58 am
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Amps do change,for better or worse capacitors drift from spec and tubes wear and the power on the transformers change as well as speakers.A 30 year old amp wont sound the same as it did when you first bought it.


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