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Post subject: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:35 pm
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Hello again !!!! I JUST bought a 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKACE,And I also own a 1967 PRO REVERB BLACKFACE.The pro reverb has the original utah speakers and im tellin u I like them!! Now I wont recieve my 1967 DELUXE REVERB until JAN13 2011 ,It has a JBLD120 F SPEAKER IN IT,Can u tell me if this is a good speaker, an upgrade from the original ?What are YOUR thoughts on the differences of the Pro ReverbBF compared to the Deluxe REVERB BF im getting? I mean will i notice a huge difference in tone? WHAT YEAR COULD THIS JBL SPEAKER BE? THANKS!!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:01 pm
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JBL D120F's are notoriously horrid speakers for any purpose.

You have been snockered!

But fear not -- I will deign to take it off your hands provided you pay the S&H charges involved in shipping it to me. As payment-in-kind, I will not disclose to anyone how you allowed yourself to be so naively ripped off in such a surreptitious manner by purchasing it in the first place.

:lol:

Arjay

_________________
"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:24 am
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I have both amps and if they're working right you won't get a huge difference in tone,what you should get is more clean headroom and volume with the Pro Reverb with it's 40watts and 2x12s.
The blackface amps are very similar in tone...the differences are how much you can crank them into tube distortion....that's my experience,and the speakers and types make most of the difference.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:10 am
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Here's something that I found on the net:
Q&A with Harvey Gerst formally of JBL who designed the original D110F, the D120F, the D130F, and the D140F.


All you ever wanted to know about "F" Series JBL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some stuff I dug up off an old USENET archive. It was written by Harvey Gerst, the person who apparently designed the Musical Instrument series speakers at JBL.
It is a long, but interesting tale:

9/20/97 alt.guitar.amps

…let me take you back to the late 50s, early 60s. JBL was a small company with their main offices above a candy store, and the manufacturing scattered in a number of buildings up and down the street, near Glendale, on Fletcher Drive.

They made the following speakers;
the D130 a full range 15",
the D131 a full range 12",
the 130A a 15" woofer,
the 130B (same as the 130A, but 16 ohms),
and the 150 - a 15" woofer with a heavier cone.

The D stood for a metal dome and the A and B were for woofers of different impedances. I don't remember if we made a 131A. We also made a D123 (full range pancake 12" speaker) and the D208 and D216 (both 8" speakers but with 8 and 16 ohm voice coils).

Fender was buying D130s for use in their Dual Showman systems, but they were experiencing problems in surrounds drying out from outdoor use, and burnouts from improper mounting techniques. I wrote a memo to the president of JBL, outlining a plan to let me design a series of speakers made specifically for musical use and he agreed. My plan called for modifications to the D130 and D131, plus an all new bass 15" speaker, and a new 10" speaker.

Since Fender was our largest purchaser, I did not want the headache of trying to re-introduce a whole new series so I kept the D130 name for the 15" and simply added an F (yes, the "F" is for Fender - don't know why to this day I did that, but I did). Since I was making up new model numbers, I decided where possible to keep it simple, so the 12" (originally the D131) became the D120F, and the new 10" became the D110F.

That left the new bass speaker. I didn't want to leave it in the 13x range because it was different and the 150 was already being used by our theater woofer. The 140 was not being used, so I named the new bass speaker the D140F.

After I left JBL, I understand they came out with the black crinkle finish and renamed them E series. The first major modifications were made in the K series, as I understand it.”

Harvey Gerst


9/19/97 alt.guitar.amps

the F is more rugged for portable use as a musical instrument speaker as compared to home use only on a fixed environment.

The "F" originally stood for Fender, since they were the largest purchasers, and at one time, the distributor for all the JBL guitar speakers. But the D130F speaker was not designed specifically by, or for them and the F eventually came to be just an indicator for all of the JBL musical instrument series speakers. The D130F did not have any significant frequency range differences, compared to the home version - the D130.
I feel I must tell you there is slightly more relief on the D130F top plate to accomodate a wider variety of mounting techniques (i.e., idiots who use torque wrenches to flatten these frames onto a warped baffle board).

Harvey Gerst



9/7/96 alt.guitar.amps

I saw a lot of D130's come through with fried voice coils that were running off a 12 Watt Williamson amp during the 50's and 60's. Integrated music from HiFi systems caused one kind of problem - using the D130 as a musical instrument speaker created other problems.

That's why I suggested the D130F (which was a redesigned D130), made expressly for musical instrument amps, as were the D110F (a totally new design), the D120F (a redesign of the D131), and the D140F (a new design using existing parts).

Power specifications for the F series were nominally 35 to about 60 Watts. How did I arrive at these figures? Pretty simple, I played guitar and bass through them and kept increasing the power till they blew. Then I downrated them from the power that fried them. Pretty hi-tech, huh? It seemed to work pretty well (of course we didn't have synth players back then).

The major amp manufacturers back then were Fender, Sunn, Kustom, and Ampeg. Rickenbacher and Mosrite also bought some, but nowhere near the volume of the other amp makers. All had JBL speaker options.

And yes, the "F" stood for Fender, since they were the largest single buyer, and also distributed the F series to music stores. They had no part in the design or the idea for the new series, I am solely to blame
for that.

Harvey Gerst


9/11/96 alt.guitar.amps

Q. Dick Dale seems to be the one claiming Fender went to JBL on behalf of him. In "Fender Sound Heard Around the World" he's quoted as saying the "F was invented as a result of melting voice coils & destroying surrounds". It's also stated that "the aluminum dust cover was Leo's idea". In his 9/96 GP interview he talks of the 'Dick Dale' kit available from JBL which includes a larger magnet, larger voice coil, thicker wires, aluminum dust cover, & rubberized front rim which brings the speaker (presumably a D130) up to Dick Dale & Fender specs! I'll be 'kind' and say that he comes off as 'a bit arrogant' in the interview!


A. I never had the honor of meeting or talking to Dick Dale, so I'd have to say that perhaps his memory has been clouded by the passing years. It's true that the JBL F series was partly about improving the current 2 models being used by Fender and others, namely the D130 and D131. It was my proposal to expand the line of speakers and at the same time, make some refinements to those speakers to make them more suitable to the guitar market. Here's what I did and why:

Opened the voice coil gap slightly on the D130F to allow more tolerance in mounting. Most people didn't realize that even though 8 mounting holes were available, only using four is the recommended mounting. And you don't screw them down tight to the board - that warps the frame. You use two fingers to do the final tightening - the casket will them complete the seal. When you warp the frame by overtightening, the voice coil can go out of round and eventually drag and short out. I opened the gap slightly to allow for this problem with just a very slight loss in efficiency - less than 1 dB.

Did the same thing on the D131 (and renamed as the D120F).

Using parts from the D130A and D150 woofers, I created a new woofer designed for bass guitar applications called the D140F. This had a copper voice coil and an aluminum dome.

Using the magnet assembly from the D123 and the basket from an LE-10, I added the D110F to complete the line of musical instrument speakers.

The surrounds were NOT "rubberized". JBL had developed a high viscosity coating to add to the existing hifi line of speakers that reduced ringing. I used it for a different reason. The hifi speaker surrounds dried out when exposed to excessive sunlight and heat, and I reasoned the viscose coating (we called it "goop" back then) would help prevent that.

Q. The other reference to Fender going to JBL was in conjunction with the development of the 1959 Vibrasonic. In Morrish's Fender amp book - Bill Carson recalls testing a protype JBL with a copper instead of aluminum voice coil & a thin paper cone? Can you shed some light on this obscure piece of JBL history?

A. Bill's probably refering to the D130A which was simply a standard JBL woofer at the time - all the woofers had copper voice coils. The 130A was basically a D130 with a copper voice coil and a paper dome and was used in the 001 system primarily (D130A, N1200 xover, and 175DLH driver/horm assembly). I felt the cone was too light for bass guitar and we wound up using the cone from the 150 woofer, a heavier unit. The duraluminum dome was added to the D140F, instead of the paper dome for cosmetic reasons at first, but later proved useful in adding a little more top end to the bass (not much though).

Q. regarding power ratings, I checked my official(3/70) JBL spec sheet for the F models and the 110F, 120F, & 130F are all rated at 100W continuous, the 140F @ 150W continuous. JBL defines 'continuous power' in my 4311B spec sheet as 3dB greater than RMS which would put the RMS rating of a D130F at 50W. On the other hand, D120Fs & D130Fs ran reliably in Showman 12s, Showman 15s, and early Boogies at considerably more power, so Mr. Gerst's & JBL's ratings are not marketing hype! It also appears that the 120F & 130F use identical magnet structures @ 11 pounds, 12,000 gauss flux density, and 275,000 maxwells total flux.

A. The D120F and the D130F, like their close cousins, the D130 and D131, all shared the same voice coil, dome, spider, and magnet assembies, except for the slightly wider gap on the top plate. I think the flux density was really around 11,700 gauss or so on the 120F & 130F because of the slightly enlarged gap, mentioned earlier.

Power handling was always a touchy subject and I just basically guessed at what I thought it could handle, based on normal playing. It was a little tricky since we were dealing with rock, country, jazz, and blues players and the power handling figures were just suggestions, regardless of how official the spec sheet looked.


The D130 and the D130F were essentially the SAME speaker. Exactly the same voice coil, cone, spider assembly, magnet, basket. The only things I did to the F are listed in a previous post, along with my reasons for doing them.

I revised the guitar ratings since those D130 ratings were for INTEGRATED music, like a symphony or a full band playing from the radio, tape or a record. The rating for a single live instrument like a guitar is much different, since there is nothing below 80 Hz or above 5 or 6 KHz coming out of a guitar (at least back then). A D130F (or a D130) could easily live with a higher power rating and we/JBL/I adjusted the rating accordingly. The new rating would also apply to a JBL D130 if used for that purpose.

If you had called JBL back then, you would have been transferred to me and that is what I would have told you. Since I was in charge of that division, I was responsible for creating those ratings and that was
our/my official position on the subject. As far as power handling, there was no difference - the rating was changed to more accurately reflect what the D130 or D130F could handle if used with a guitar as the source.

The lower rating also still applied if either speaker was used for full range music reproduction. These were my "babies" and if you want to disagree with me, that's fine. If you were at JBL at the time I was designing these, we could have had some rousing discussions about it. And besides, I think I also wrote those spec sheets for the D130 as well.


Q. A couple more Q's & I'll leave you alone - Didn't know the D140F has a copper voice coil - is it an edgewound ribbon like the aluminum coils? What were the reason(s) for using copper (vs. aluminum) in the D140F?

A. Yes, the D140F had an edgewound copper ribbon voice coil. Copper has better heat conductivity than aluminum (think pots and pans) but it's heavier and not as responsive to high frequencies, due to it's weight. For use in woofers, copper is the wire of choice.

Actually, had I thought about it some more, I should have probably made the D140F more of a full range speaker, but it was basically designed as a replacement for people using D130A woofers for live music.

Harvey Gerst

So many Frequencies..So Little Time.

_________________
-T

"You can't spend what you ain't got, you can't lose what you ain't never had" ~ McKinley Morganfield


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:02 pm
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Posts: 4333
Location: Tennessee
Thanks tyronne,that's interesting,JBLs are awesome speakers.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:55 am
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 263
Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
Retroverbial wrote:
JBL D120F's are notoriously horrid speakers for any purpose.

You have been snockered!

But fear not -- I will deign to take it off your hands provided you pay the S&H charges involved in shipping it to me. As payment-in-kind, I will not disclose to anyone how you allowed yourself to be so naively ripped off in such a surreptitious manner by purchasing it in the first place. REALLY !!!!ARE U SERIOUS? SO arajay u had me going i really thought the jbl was awful lol!!! and was wondering why u would want to take it off my hands im such a dork lol!!! you see i just woke up and it didnt register in my brain lol!!!! it means alot that u think this speaker is a good one and it was cause of u and your reccomendations that i chose a deluxe reverb blackface as my 2nd blackface if im not mistaken there your favorite out of all the blackfaces thanks arajay KOOCHO

:lol:

Arjay


Last edited by koocho on Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:17 am
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am
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I think you missed the humor in Arjay's post completely,and in doing so,made yourself look bad.
He was saying the speakers are great,...haven't you seen things like this before?...like some guy says I bought this Custom Shop Strat for $800,how did I do? ...and some guy says,you got ripped off,send it to me and I take it off your hands...
Take a chill pill,man.


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:25 am
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
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Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
Rebelsoul wrote:
I have both amps and if they're working right you won't get a huge difference in tone,what you should get is more clean headroom and volume with the Pro Reverb with it's 40watts and 2x12s.
The blackface amps are very similar in tone...the differences are how much you can crank them into tube distortion....that's my experience,and the speakers and types make most of the difference.

THANKS!!! today or tonight i will recieve my amp and what u mentioned about head room is what seemms to be the majority answer for the comparison of these amps im really concerned about that jbl thats in this deluxe but not to worried because i do have the warrenty with full money back any thoughts about the jbld120f speaker? thanks again!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:38 am
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 263
Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
Rebelsoul wrote:
I think you missed the humor in Arjay's post completely,and in doing so,made yourself look bad.
He was saying the speakers are great,...haven't you seen things like this before?...like some guy says I bought this Custom Shop Strat for $800,how did I do? ...and some guy says,you got ripped off,send it to me and I take it off your hands...
Take a chill pill,man.

i guess i missed the joke and if arajay can accept my appology i didnt mean anything( I RE EDITED MY REPLY HOWEVER T WASNT REALLY A NASTY REPLY ARAJAY) but your right i do feel foolish i didnt get the joke but now that u pointed it outto me i feel awful lol!!!! i dont think hes clinicalyy depressed LOL!!! and he probably is alot smarter than me lol!!!! it was childish and im totally embarassed so aray jay sorry dude i really thought i you were attacking me. lol!!! cmon you gotta laugh!!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:57 am
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 263
Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
tyronne wrote:
Here's something that I found on the net:
Q&A with Harvey Gerst formally of JBL who designed the original D110F, the D120F, the D130F, and the D140F.


All you ever wanted to know about "F" Series JBL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is some stuff I dug up off an old USENET archive. It was written by Harvey Gerst, the person who apparently designed the Musical Instrument series speakers at JBL.
It is a long, but interesting tale:

9/20/97 alt.guitar.amps

…let me take you back to the late 50s, early 60s. JBL was a small company with their main offices above a candy store, and the manufacturing scattered in a number of buildings up and down the street, near Glendale, on Fletcher Drive.

They made the following speakers;
the D130 a full range 15",
the D131 a full range 12",
the 130A a 15" woofer,
the 130B (same as the 130A, but 16 ohms),
and the 150 - a 15" woofer with a heavier cone.

The D stood for a metal dome and the A and B were for woofers of different impedances. I don't remember if we made a 131A. We also made a D123 (full range pancake 12" speaker) and the D208 and D216 (both 8" speakers but with 8 and 16 ohm voice coils).

Fender was buying D130s for use in their Dual Showman systems, but they were experiencing problems in surrounds drying out from outdoor use, and burnouts from improper mounting techniques. I wrote a memo to the president of JBL, outlining a plan to let me design a series of speakers made specifically for musical use and he agreed. My plan called for modifications to the D130 and D131, plus an all new bass 15" speaker, and a new 10" speaker.

Since Fender was our largest purchaser, I did not want the headache of trying to re-introduce a whole new series so I kept the D130 name for the 15" and simply added an F (yes, the "F" is for Fender - don't know why to this day I did that, but I did). Since I was making up new model numbers, I decided where possible to keep it simple, so the 12" (originally the D131) became the D120F, and the new 10" became the D110F.

That left the new bass speaker. I didn't want to leave it in the 13x range because it was different and the 150 was already being used by our theater woofer. The 140 was not being used, so I named the new bass speaker the D140F.

After I left JBL, I understand they came out with the black crinkle finish and renamed them E series. The first major modifications were made in the K series, as I understand it.”

Harvey Gerst


9/19/97 alt.guitar.amps

the F is more rugged for portable use as a musical instrument speaker as compared to home use only on a fixed environment.

The "F" originally stood for Fender, since they were the largest purchasers, and at one time, the distributor for all the JBL guitar speakers. But the D130F speaker was not designed specifically by, or for them and the F eventually came to be just an indicator for all of the JBL musical instrument series speakers. The D130F did not have any significant frequency range differences, compared to the home version - the D130.
I feel I must tell you there is slightly more relief on the D130F top plate to accomodate a wider variety of mounting techniques (i.e., idiots who use torque wrenches to flatten these frames onto a warped baffle board).

Harvey Gerst



9/7/96 alt.guitar.amps

I saw a lot of D130's come through with fried voice coils that were running off a 12 Watt Williamson amp during the 50's and 60's. Integrated music from HiFi systems caused one kind of problem - using the D130 as a musical instrument speaker created other problems.

That's why I suggested the D130F (which was a redesigned D130), made expressly for musical instrument amps, as were the D110F (a totally new design), the D120F (a redesign of the D131), and the D140F (a new design using existing parts).

Power specifications for the F series were nominally 35 to about 60 Watts. How did I arrive at these figures? Pretty simple, I played guitar and bass through them and kept increasing the power till they blew. Then I downrated them from the power that fried them. Pretty hi-tech, huh? It seemed to work pretty well (of course we didn't have synth players back then).

The major amp manufacturers back then were Fender, Sunn, Kustom, and Ampeg. Rickenbacher and Mosrite also bought some, but nowhere near the volume of the other amp makers. All had JBL speaker options.

And yes, the "F" stood for Fender, since they were the largest single buyer, and also distributed the F series to music stores. They had no part in the design or the idea for the new series, I am solely to blame
for that.

Harvey Gerst


9/11/96 alt.guitar.amps

Q. Dick Dale seems to be the one claiming Fender went to JBL on behalf of him. In "Fender Sound Heard Around the World" he's quoted as saying the "F was invented as a result of melting voice coils & destroying surrounds". It's also stated that "the aluminum dust cover was Leo's idea". In his 9/96 GP interview he talks of the 'Dick Dale' kit available from JBL which includes a larger magnet, larger voice coil, thicker wires, aluminum dust cover, & rubberized front rim which brings the speaker (presumably a D130) up to Dick Dale & Fender specs! I'll be 'kind' and say that he comes off as 'a bit arrogant' in the interview!


A. I never had the honor of meeting or talking to Dick Dale, so I'd have to say that perhaps his memory has been clouded by the passing years. It's true that the JBL F series was partly about improving the current 2 models being used by Fender and others, namely the D130 and D131. It was my proposal to expand the line of speakers and at the same time, make some refinements to those speakers to make them more suitable to the guitar market. Here's what I did and why:

Opened the voice coil gap slightly on the D130F to allow more tolerance in mounting. Most people didn't realize that even though 8 mounting holes were available, only using four is the recommended mounting. And you don't screw them down tight to the board - that warps the frame. You use two fingers to do the final tightening - the casket will them complete the seal. When you warp the frame by overtightening, the voice coil can go out of round and eventually drag and short out. I opened the gap slightly to allow for this problem with just a very slight loss in efficiency - less than 1 dB.

Did the same thing on the D131 (and renamed as the D120F).

Using parts from the D130A and D150 woofers, I created a new woofer designed for bass guitar applications called the D140F. This had a copper voice coil and an aluminum dome.

Using the magnet assembly from the D123 and the basket from an LE-10, I added the D110F to complete the line of musical instrument speakers.

The surrounds were NOT "rubberized". JBL had developed a high viscosity coating to add to the existing hifi line of speakers that reduced ringing. I used it for a different reason. The hifi speaker surrounds dried out when exposed to excessive sunlight and heat, and I reasoned the viscose coating (we called it "goop" back then) would help prevent that.

Q. The other reference to Fender going to JBL was in conjunction with the development of the 1959 Vibrasonic. In Morrish's Fender amp book - Bill Carson recalls testing a protype JBL with a copper instead of aluminum voice coil & a thin paper cone? Can you shed some light on this obscure piece of JBL history?

A. Bill's probably refering to the D130A which was simply a standard JBL woofer at the time - all the woofers had copper voice coils. The 130A was basically a D130 with a copper voice coil and a paper dome and was used in the 001 system primarily (D130A, N1200 xover, and 175DLH driver/horm assembly). I felt the cone was too light for bass guitar and we wound up using the cone from the 150 woofer, a heavier unit. The duraluminum dome was added to the D140F, instead of the paper dome for cosmetic reasons at first, but later proved useful in adding a little more top end to the bass (not much though).

Q. regarding power ratings, I checked my official(3/70) JBL spec sheet for the F models and the 110F, 120F, & 130F are all rated at 100W continuous, the 140F @ 150W continuous. JBL defines 'continuous power' in my 4311B spec sheet as 3dB greater than RMS which would put the RMS rating of a D130F at 50W. On the other hand, D120Fs & D130Fs ran reliably in Showman 12s, Showman 15s, and early Boogies at considerably more power, so Mr. Gerst's & JBL's ratings are not marketing hype! It also appears that the 120F & 130F use identical magnet structures @ 11 pounds, 12,000 gauss flux density, and 275,000 maxwells total flux.

A. The D120F and the D130F, like their close cousins, the D130 and D131, all shared the same voice coil, dome, spider, and magnet assembies, except for the slightly wider gap on the top plate. I think the flux density was really around 11,700 gauss or so on the 120F & 130F because of the slightly enlarged gap, mentioned earlier.

Power handling was always a touchy subject and I just basically guessed at what I thought it could handle, based on normal playing. It was a little tricky since we were dealing with rock, country, jazz, and blues players and the power handling figures were just suggestions, regardless of how official the spec sheet looked.


The D130 and the D130F were essentially the SAME speaker. Exactly the same voice coil, cone, spider assembly, magnet, basket. The only things I did to the F are listed in a previous post, along with my reasons for doing them.

I revised the guitar ratings since those D130 ratings were for INTEGRATED music, like a symphony or a full band playing from the radio, tape or a record. The rating for a single live instrument like a guitar is much different, since there is nothing below 80 Hz or above 5 or 6 KHz coming out of a guitar (at least back then). A D130F (or a D130) could easily live with a higher power rating and we/JBL/I adjusted the rating accordingly. The new rating would also apply to a JBL D130 if used for that purpose.

If you had called JBL back then, you would have been transferred to me and that is what I would have told you. Since I was in charge of that division, I was responsible for creating those ratings and that was
our/my official position on the subject. As far as power handling, there was no difference - the rating was changed to more accurately reflect what the D130 or D130F could handle if used with a guitar as the source.

The lower rating also still applied if either speaker was used for full range music reproduction. These were my "babies" and if you want to disagree with me, that's fine. If you were at JBL at the time I was designing these, we could have had some rousing discussions about it. And besides, I think I also wrote those spec sheets for the D130 as well.


Q. A couple more Q's & I'll leave you alone - Didn't know the D140F has a copper voice coil - is it an edgewound ribbon like the aluminum coils? What were the reason(s) for using copper (vs. aluminum) in the D140F?

A. Yes, the D140F had an edgewound copper ribbon voice coil. Copper has better heat conductivity than aluminum (think pots and pans) but it's heavier and not as responsive to high frequencies, due to it's weight. For use in woofers, copper is the wire of choice.

Actually, had I thought about it some more, I should have probably made the D140F more of a full range speaker, but it was basically designed as a replacement for people using D130A woofers for live music.

Harvey Gerst

So many Frequencies..So Little Time.

THANKS!!!!!


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:23 am
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Posts: 26417
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koocho wrote:
i guess i missed the joke and if arajay can accept my appology i didnt mean anything


Your apology will be accepted once I receive that speaker......

:mrgreen:

Seriously koocho, you've got a fine rig there -- some might actually deem it "the holy grail". Have fun and post some pics of the beastie once you get it unpacked and play it for a few hours.

Rawk on!

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:32 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 263
Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
Retroverbial wrote:
koocho wrote:
i guess i missed the joke and if arajay can accept my appology i didnt mean anything


Your apology will be accepted once I receive that speaker......

:mrgreen:

Seriously koocho, you've got a fine rig there -- some might actually deem it "the holy grail". Have fun and post some pics of the beastie once you get it unpacked and play it for a few hours.

Rawk on!

Arjay

i will post some pics and i just want to say last night my amp tech took this amp apart and looked it over and we were all interested at the transformer it looked different,,, we concluded that this was an amp that in the 60s was prepped to work in europe. i just mean it looked different ! DO u know what I mean or should i called my amp tech and let him explain it better and then properly ask u the question? i think he said it was a little bigger and heavier (extra wires different coulours)it was a transformer made for over seas i will try to get a pic and explain what im talking about later, but definetly it was stock!!! this amp was unusally super clean in fact everything is stock except the power cord and the speaker however later today friday the 14th i will play this for a couple hours and see how i like the speaker believe it or not some people are not impressed by the jbl speaker but if im correct u love them arajay, so i will let u know how i like the jbl . do u have all jbls in your amps? thanks!! (sorry i really rushed this reply im late for work i will pic your brain later thanks)


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:54 am
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Location: Tombstone Territory
Most of my larger amps are JBL-equipped but I have some smaller combos with a variety of OEM or aftermarket types -- CTS, Oxford, vintage Jensen, Celestion.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:37 am
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Roadie
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:33 pm
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Location: toronto ONTARIO CANADA
[quote="Retroverbial"]Most of my larger amps are JBL-equipped but I have some smaller combos with a variety of OEM or aftermarket types -- CTS, Oxford, vintage Jensen, Celestion.

Arjay[/ARAJAY your probabl again going to think im nuts but im not very impressed with THIS JBLD120F !!! iT SOUNDS very bright and pingy
)if thats a word) I know your alot more experienced way more knowlegable AND honestly im surprised that i dont like something that your saying is good,perhaps ARAJAY THIS PARTICULAR JBL IS NOT THE BESTOF THE JBLS .ARAJAY I DID AN EXPERIMENT,Iunplugged the1967 FENDER BLACKFACE DELUXE REVERBS SPEAKER and plugged it into my VOX V112HTV EXT CAB THE CAB HAS A 12INCH BRITISH BLUE DOG CELESTION(I SOLD MY AC15 HANDWIRED HERITAGE AMP SO I COULD GET THIS DELUXE BY THE WAY AND I GOT KILLED I LET IT GO FOR $900,I PAYED $1499 PLUS 13% TAXES HERE IN CANADA 7 MONTHS AGO A BIG MISTAKE)Anyway ARAJAY it sounded like tone from heaven above this cab goes for $650 retail(I DIDNT PAY THAT MUCH IM JUST GIVING YOU AN INDICATION OF THE QUALITY)YOU seenhaving the 1967 pro reverb right beside the deluxe i just bought ,I was going back and forth comparing tone and im tellin u I thought perhaps I just didnt like the deluxes,but I MEAN EVERYONE INCLUDING YOURSELF JUST RAVE ABOUT THE DELUXES EVEN CALLING THEM THE ABSOLUTE BESTOF THE BLACKFACES !!! So I concluded it must be the tubes or the speaker.I dont know where this vox speaker stands in the land of speaker quality i just know there was a dramatic difference and IM DEFINETLY TAKING OUT THAT JBL.AFTER HEARING THE DELUXE NOW I AGREE THEY ARE THE HOLY GRAIL PERFECTION ABSOLUTE PERFECTION NOW IM NOT GONNA PUT A VOX SPEAKER IN THIS AMP SO I WILL PROBABLY NEED SOME SUGGESTIONS OF SOME SPEAKER REPLACE MENTS THANKS AGAIN


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Post subject: Re: 1967 DELUXE REVERB BLACKFACE WITH A JBLD120F SPEAKER?
Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 8:53 am
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Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 10:53 pm
Posts: 1467
Location: deep down in Florida...
koocho wrote:
ARAJAY your probabl again going to think im nuts but im not very impressed with THIS JBLD120F !!! iT SOUNDS very bright and pingy

BTW it's Arjay not Arajay :wink:

JBL D series are not for everyone, a lot of musicians I talk to either love 'em or hate 'em... I have the 15" version (D130F) that I use in my DRRI, there are some things I like about it and some I don't. When playing at home, usually clean tone straight into the amp, I find that I don't like it and end up putting the other 15" I have. Now, when I put a tube screamer in front of it for that nice creamy warm Bluesy tone it is a completely different monster! Specially when playing with a band, heavenly tone that never gets old!

If you like the tone of the Celestion Blue then you should consider getting the Celestion Gold for your DR, a great sounding speaker but a bit pricey. You can always give the JBL to Arjay :mrgreen:


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