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Post subject: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:54 pm
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I bought this Bronco and it arrived with the speaker torn to bits probably caused by the valves rolling around loose in the back .
What sort of speaker do you recommend ? does it need to be 4ohm ? should I stick with 8" or try a 10" ?


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2010 10:17 pm
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The amp requires a 4-ohm load.

There is room in the cab for a 10-inch speaker (if you're obliged to commit such "blasphemy").

Weber makes a pretty good alnico 8-inch replacement, or you can have the original Oxford re-coned.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:08 am
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FWIW... I replaced a stock OEM speaker in a Vibro-Champ with a Weber 8F150. It fits fine and sounds great. If you have the money.

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:59 am
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Is that a 4ohm speaker ? How important is it to match up the impedance ?


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:59 am
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Yes, it's a 4-ohm impedance rated speaker. I've been told that it's important to have as close a match to the output impedance of the OPT in a Champ (or Bronco). Prolly because the OPT is not your typical over-built unit, seen in many Fender amps.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:28 pm
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I've got a Weber 8A125 in my 73 Champ. Not sure if I'm in love with it or not.

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:55 pm
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Have you allowed for an adequate break-in period, PTM?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:50 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Have you allowed for an adequate break-in period, PTM?

Arjay


Well, put it in back in summer and have done a fair bit of jamming on the amp at higher volumes. I'd guess it would have to have more than 20 or 30 hours on it by now.

It changed the whole character of the amp. Then again it could be the tubes I'm not loving. I've got JJ's in there but it came with original RCA's. Anyone make a decent copy of the RCA 6V6 and 12AX7?

EDIT: Ok, it's the tubes for sure. Just put the NOS tubes back in the Champ and it sounds wonderful like when I bought it. JJ's appear to be too "dark" for this amp. Suggestions?

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Last edited by Powdered Toast Man on Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:06 pm
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In all honesty, there prolly are no really close new issued tubes to match the old NOS RCA 6V6GT and 12AX7.

I haven't tried this one, but many ppl seem to like the re-issued Tungsol 6V6GT (Russian-made). I am not a big fan of the JJ 6V6S. There seems to have been quite a bit of QA issues with the latest batch of JJ power and rectifier tubes, since 2010. IN my experience, at least.

I have tried both the Mullard and Tungsol re-issued 12AX7. I like the brightness of the Tungsol over the smooth mids of the Mullard (both are Russian made). I have heard a lot of good things about the new Genalex reissued 12AX7. Except that they are hard to find.

Since the Champ only takes one power tube & one 12AX7... Maybe it's worth looking for a good UOS (slightly used old-stock) RCA gray glass and RCA or Raytheon 12AX7. A good seller that tests for strength and noise is in order.

Info on New Reissued tubes:

http://thetubestore.com/12ax70ectyp.html

http://thetubestore.com/6v6types.html


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 9:09 pm
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I've seen some vintage NOS tube sets for Champs and Vibro Champs on Ebay for pretty reasonable $$$......usually a mix of Sylvania's and Westinghouse.

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:41 pm
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If the RCA 6V6GT "makes" the amp, I kinda doubt you'll get similar results--- without using a good NOS tube. My experience is the power tube REALLY makes a big difference in these low-powered single-ended amps (as you just found out).

As NOS tubes go, the RCA gray glass is my favorite (and the standard I compare other 6V6GT's). With the brown based (micanol base) mil spec 6V6GTY RCA (whether made in USA or Canada) being the toughest.

The gray glass Raytheon 6V6GTY comes really close to the RCA tone. A bit cleaner mids, so not the warm and fuzzy midrange characteristic of most RCA power tubes.

The CBS-Hytron 6V6GTY is a very good tube. Powerful tone. Not the warm mids of the RCA. Can take a lot of plate voltage (like most GTY's of this era). Like, can be used in 6L6GC amps, rebiased to 6V6GT dissipation range. In other words, can handle 440+ VDC on its plates.

The gray glass Sylvania 6V6GT & 6V6GTY tend to have a bit cleaner high end than the RCA. The WW2 era VT-107B is an excellent tube. The gray glass coke bottles are absolute killers. Yes, they work fine at plate voltages and biases common to Fender amps of this era.

The Visseaux 6V6GTY has absolute killer tone. But cost is higher than other NOS tubes. Powerful with very good mids.

The Brimar 6V6GTY/CV511 has a cleaner tone. Very powerful tone. Built to last. Not the creamy mids of the RCA. Supposedly a "copy" of the original RCA design.

The 1950's TungSol 6V6GT and GTY are POWERFUL tubes. Cleaner bass and mids than the RCA. They give the amp a kinda "mini" 5881 or 6L6GC tone.

The US made GE 6V6GT has the poorest tone of all these NOS tubes. I only tried them in a couple of amps (a Deluxe and a Princeton). Both sets sounded compressed with a congested top end. Was quite disappointed. Never tried another set.

HOWEVER, the Canadian made GE mil spec 6V6GTY is an excellent tube. Cleaner mids than the RCA. Very good bass and top end. Lasts forever. One has been in above Champ (see photo) for about 5 years now. Very consistent tone. Reliable as a 50-caliber MG (like most 6V6GT's of this era).

Ken-Rad 6V6GT and GTY. I've used the mil spec VT-107A with very good results. Great tone. Very close to the RCA. Lasts forever.

Never tried the Mazda 6V6GT or Italian made 6V6GT's. They have very good reputation, though.

I prolly used several other brands of 6V6GT's, but can think of them off top of my head. Haven't used any new products in my own amps. But, have heard good things about Tungsol re-issued Russian tubes.

Good luck with your hunt. I'd concentrate on NOS. My experience is NOS 6V6GT has this tone and reliability that most new made tubes cannot come close to. The greatest difference of all power tube models (NOS versus new production).


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:51 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
The US made GE 6V6GT has the poorest tone of all these NOS tubes. I only tried them in a couple of amps (a Deluxe and a Princeton). Both sets sounded compressed with a congested top end. Was quite disappointed. Never tried another set.


Weird.

I put a matched pair of mid-60's gray-plate GE's into my '65 Princeton Reverb and the amp positively sings. They came from Ebay as half of a matched quartet -- I'm holding the other two in reserve for my DRRI, when its pair of currently-installed NOS Sylvania's bite the dust around 2025 or so.

I've also got 7 or 8 Ken-Rads and a few Hytrons laying around......great tubes, all.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:09 am
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Arjay, I prolly got a couple of lemon GE's. And never tried another set. Like you, I'm lucky enough to have a small stash of NOS of various brands and eras. So, I just stuck with brands that I had success.

I have used the clear glass GE 6V6GTA in a SF Princeton Reverb, with great results.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Fender Bronco {Champ}
Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 12:24 am
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Yes, mine are the clear bottles.

For whatever reason, I never really liked those gray-glass tubes. I wanna see those elements light up in all their ionized glory.

:lol:

Arjay

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