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Post subject: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:05 am
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Hey Ya'll,
It's been a while since I've posted to any of the Fender forums...for those who know me from the Strat & Squire forums, some of you know the past year has been exceptionally difficult for me and my family. One of the good things that has happened however is that both my wife and I got funding to go back to college. I'm going for an Associate of Arts Degree (Graphics Design) and next semester I'm taking a course in 3D modeling & animation. The software I'm using for the 3D modeling class is Maya (pretty serious stuff if you've never heard of it) and as I'm playing with this software before the classes start, I've started a new project...and hopefully someone can help me out here.

To cut to the chase here, I'm building a 3D model of a "vintage" Fender Twin Reverb (I say "vintage" because I'm not really sure if I'm going to make it a silver face or a black face yet). As such, I need a decent cabinet diagram so I can get my proportions a bit closer than I have with other projects I've modeled so far. I have looked around on the internet...I know what I'm looking for is out there -somewhere- but I haven't been able to find actual cabinet diagrams yet. I've been working with pictures so far (and there's plenty of Twin pics out there), but if I could get it a little more exact, that would be nice.

-PLEASE- know that this is strictly a personal, educational project for me...something I am doing as a student more than anything else. There is no financial profit for me here, other than using the model/images I create in my own portfolio. This is a NON-PROFIT endeavor...please don't get in my face about copyright or trademark issues. This is something I'm doing for fun and for my own education, nothing more. No scams or anything here...I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes here, I'm not looking to rip anyone off and I'll be happy to post some pics of it here when it's finished (which I'll probably do anyways just to get some critiques).

So that's it. I have component and wiring layouts (yes, I'm going to model the chassis as well I think), once I figure out how to apply jpegs as textures, I have a good sample of a grill cloth to use and I should be able to make most of the other parts fairly realistic...depending on just how detailed I decided to get (not sure if I'm actually going to model screws yet or not! LOL!). I just need a good diagram of the cabinet...something like a blue print would be good.

As always, I'm grateful for any assistance! Thanks!!
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:49 pm
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Couldn't a set of cabinet plans be drawn up in Powerpoint?

I've used that program a number of times to work out visual compatibility issues and it's pretty user-friendly to a "digital neanderthal" like me.

JMO

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:33 pm
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"Couldn't a set of cabinet plans be drawn up in Powerpoint?"

Here's the thing...yea, I could probably draw them up in Adobe Illustrator for that matter and then import them into Maya. The problem is that in order to make my own cabinet plans/blue prints, I would need to actually have access to a Fender Twin in order to get the specs. If I had a Twin down in the studio...or at least had easy access to one, then I'd just go an measure it and wouldn't be asking for diagrams.

Basically I just finished making all the control knobs for the face plate and all of them lined up, my face plate looks a bit too wide...and if the face plate I made (which is basically a thin rectangle) is too wide, so's the body (and there's already quite a bit of work in to that). In other words, at the moment I'm just eye-ballin' things based on pictures. Now I could import a picture or two in to Illustrator and do a "rough" diagram based of pics but that's not quite as accurate. I may not be able to achieve "hyper-real" here but I'm aiming in that direction :-)

Peace,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:37 pm
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Well I'm happy to measure my two Twin Reverbs and send you dimensions if you wish.

E-mail me at <phantoms4ever(at)cox(dot)net> if you think it will help.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:11 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Well I'm happy to measure my two Twin Reverbs and send you dimensions if you wish.

E-mail me at <phantoms4ever(at)cox(dot)net> if you think it will help.

Arjay



Thanks Arjay...I'll keep that in mind. I really don't want to put anyone to that kind of trouble though...I'm SURE there has got to be diagrams SOMEWHERE on the internet! I've found schematics and such easily enough, just no cabinet diagrams yet.

For the moment I went ahead and did what I said in my last post there...I've gone ahead and imported a couple of pics in to Illustrator and just did some rectangular boxes as reference (and I was definitely too wide). The problem with working like this is that...well...it's two dimensional. Can't really find any "face on" shots that aren't distorted to one degree or another (lens distortion from cameras). I guess for what I'm doing, it's close enough but still...would be kind of cool to be precise.

In the couple of hours I've been working on it here, I think I've decided it's gonna be a silver face :-)

Again, I'll keep it in mind...don't go to any trouble yet though.
Thanks,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 2:34 pm
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No trouble a-tall, Jim.

BTW, I have some photos of cabs sans Tolex that I've built that show how the interior cleats are installed and how the baffle boards are fabricated. Yours for the asking.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:56 pm
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http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 2173000010

'65 Custom Twin

Cabinet Material: Baltic Birch Plywood Cabinet
Pilot Light Jewel: Red Amp Jewel
Handle: Molded Black Handle
Tilt Back Legs: 19" Tilt Back Legs
Front Panel: "Blackface"™ Style Control Panel
Amplifier Length: 10.5" (26.7 cm)
Amplifier Width: 26.15" (66.4 cm)
Amplifier Height: 22" (55.88 cm)
Amplifier Weight: 64 lbs. (34 kg)
Effects: Reverb, Vibrato

Dont know if this helps - whether your Twin is same size, but I'd guess that it is.

EDIT

http://www.fender.com/products/search.p ... 0217300000

'65 Twin Reverb®

Cabinet Material: Baltic Birch Plywood Cabinet
Pilot Light Jewel: Red Amp Jewel
Handle: Molded Black Handle
Tilt Back Legs: 19" Tilt Back Legs
Front Panel: "Blackface"™ Style Control Panel
Amplifier Length: 10.5" (26.7 cm)
Amplifier Width: 26.5" (67.31 cm)
Amplifier Height: 19.87" (50.46 cm)
Amplifier Weight: 64 lbs. (34 kg)
Effects: Reverb, Vibrato


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:53 am
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Here's where I am so far...I'm going to try and post an image here if I can remember how...either Firefox or Imageshack is giving me some crap about the URL...

Image

Anyways, as you can see (hopefully), it's coming along pretty well. Not exactly "hyper-real" per say and I certainly have a LONG ways to go, but this should give you a pretty good idea of what I'm doing. Please remember also that I am -just learning- this stuff...while I've done computer art and photography for quite a while now, I've very much a newbie to all of this 3D modeling stuff...and Maya, while it is extremely powerful, isn't exactly the most user friendly program in the world.

That said, with only a couple of small exceptions which were started in Illustrator (like the pinstripe on the control panel), almost all of this (so far) is made from polygon primitives...basic cubes, cylinders and sphears. I still plan to model/add speakers, a (hopefully) realistic grill cloth, tubes...glowing tubes at that and at least some degree of internal detail. I also need to figure out some way of adding a tolex-like texture to the surface...right now it looks like polished metal.

BTW...I should probably add that I'm doing this amp as part of a MUCH larger, on-going 3D project. I won't explain everything right now but basically I'm making a 50's style diner. I'm sure some of you know the image that I mean...black & white checkered floors, red vinyl stools and boths, old bubble jukebox and $.10 pinball machine in the corners... The project has already gotten -way- out of control...I've made not only tables and booths and stools and windows -and- the pinball machine, jukebox, coffee maker, ketchup and mustard bottles, salt & pepper shakers, coffee cups (...yes, folks, all in 3D models), plus I'm also working on the stage. I downloaded a rather realistic model of a Music Man bass, I've already done a pretty decent model of my Pearl drum kit (that alone took me two days to make!) and at some point...probably not for a while but at some point, I'm going to model at least 1 of my Strats. It's a fun project and I can use a lot of these individual models in my portfolio. Here's a shot of the jukebox based loosely...more or less...on a Wurlitzer 1015...

Image

Anyways, I suspect that some of these will really be on-going projects as I learn the program and how to work with things better in it...still takes me 2 to 3 hours to figure out how to do something that should only take 5 minutes. Either way, I'll post a couple of shots when it's finished...or at least when I get bored or frustrated working on it and move on to something else! LOL!!!

Peace,
Jim

Okies...hopefully those pics will load.


Last edited by lomitus on Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:54 am
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p.s. Lemme know if those pictures are coming up or not...it doesn't look like it on my screen...


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:47 am
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Your images are posting -- no html problems that I can see.

As for the amp:

The knobs are too widely-spaced......on the actual amp, there is only about 1.5 mm of separation between them (excluding the MV knob).

The cabinet lacks some hardware -- specifically the chassis straps on top, the plated metal corners at the bottom, and the tilt-back legs. As well, the corners and the edges should be radiused to a scale equalling 3/8".

Your depiction is really turning out quite well -- congrats on the effort thus far!

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:51 am
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UPDATE:

Okies...here's where we is so far. I do know that some of my proportions are a bit off...the cabinet is too tall for one thing (which I am trying to figure out how to fix without starting over again), etc.. I wasn't really able to translate the numbers you gave me in to Maya (which is why I was looking for a diagram) but I did import a couple of pics in to Illustrator and made some "proportions diagrams" based on the pics which I was able to import in to Maya...unfortunately I think I probably would have done better just eye-balling it.

On the knob issue... Again I was basing the spacing rather loosely off pics and not actual diagrams. -If- it were just a matter of moving the knobs a bit, that wouldn't be a problem at all....I can slide them back and forth easily with no issues. The problem is the blue pinstrip outline on the control panel. That thing was a freakin' muther to make (took me nearly an hour) and I had applied it when I still had the control panel "flat in space"...if I change the knob positions, I'll have to make a new pinstrip and match the angle. It's not impossible, but it is rather time consuming and I do still have -A LOT- of other things to build for this amp. I may go back and look at the knob spacing and such again later (or even in a second version) but for now we're just going to call it "artistic license" :-).

Also PLEASE remember that I am VERY much still learning this software. I've only been working in Maya for about a month now and believe me, there is -A LOT- to learn here! This program really does make Photoshop look like MicroSoft Paint! LOL!!! Very powerful but -VERY- complex program for 3D animation (and I'm not even in to the animation part yet!). I am taking a college class in this next semester, so I wanted to get a jump on learning the software end of things before classes start. If nothing else so that the first day of class when all the other students are sitting there trying to figure out how to make cubes and spheres, I can bring up something like the amp here and say "Looky what I made!", LOL!

This issue here really is just that along with my inexperience, I have to make every last piece part for any of these models. A bit different from reality where if you need a screw, you just run down to Home Depot! LOL! If I need a screw...or 6 screws...or a couple of dozen screws, I have to make them. Some of the stuff I'm getting pretty fair with...working with basic cubes and cylinders for example. On the other hand, I still have a lot of issues with trying to manipulate spheres and such...and I have -NO IDEA- how I'm going to make those chrome corner pieces for the cabinet... I'm still -very- much just figuring things out as I go along.

That said, here's where we stand as of this morn' (btw...Happy Xmas, Slammin' Solistice, Happy Hanuka, Kickin' Quanza, whatever...). Here's a couple of screen shots I did yesterday while doing a render test and playing with lighting a little bit...



Image


As you can (hopefully) see, I've added a bit more detail. I've got the tilt back legs made (although I'm still not happy with them which is why I haven't embossed the Fender name in them yet), I've made the chassis straps, etc., and more importantly, I'm getting closer to figuring out how to apply jpegs as textures. From the sides, the tolex actually looks pretty good but on the top section, it still looks a little screwy. There also seems to be some issues with the grill cloth as it tends to "distort" depending on the angle of the amp (or possibly the lighting).

For the scene I've added some -very- basic lighting. Two "ambient" lights and one spot light (obviously). This is the very first time I've played with lighting...in this software at least...as a part-time photographer as well as having been a live stage musician for going on 30 years, I do have -some- meager knowledge of how lighting works (at least in theory, LOL!). Once I've figured out the in's and out's of the software, the rest should work pretty well of instinct :-).


Image

I've also gone back and played with the color of the "stainless steel" on the control panel. I may end up using an image as the surface for that too though so I can get the right texture (stainless has a very distinctive look to it). And yes, I know I forgot the label for "Master Volume". Just something else that I need to go back and fix later.

Now here's a quick shot I did this morning after having made and "installed" the tubes last night....


Image

Sorry the image is a bit dark here but I wanted to keep it dark so that you could see that the tubes actually glow! Woo-hoo! And yes, they're Groove Tubes :-) Also you should be able to see that I've got the speakers made...the labels are based off classic Fender Blue-Backs (obviously) but I took some artistic license with the speaker baskets. Couldn't completely figure out how to do those old Jensen style baskets (maybe later).


Anyways, it's quite obviously still a work in progress. For the next day or two I'll probably work on the chassis...get the back panel (the speaker jacks, power & standby switches, lettering, etc) and lower part of the chassis made (stuff like the pre-tubes, the tube sockets, the transformer, etc). It's not really going to be the "hyper-real" model that I originally envisioned, but it's probably going to be my most detailed model to date. Either way, it's getting there....

Enjoy,
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:21 am
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The chassis straps each need to move outboard -- they should be located approximately 1.5 inches in from the outer edges of the cab on both sides. As well, the front panel on the silverface amps is actually polished aluminum -- you might brighten that up a bit.

Great work thus far.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:15 pm
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Much improved - looking good Jim!

And happy festive season to you as well! And to all the great people on this board.

Rgds, Chris


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Post subject: Ok...need some help here...
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:00 am
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Okies...I'm working on the chassis and specifically I'm doing all of the text on the back panel of the chassis ("ON", "STANDBY", "GROUND SWITCH", etc). I've got about 90% from images and I have a good reference image for item placement however there are a few labels there that I just can't read on the images I have...

1.) Between the "OUTPUT TUBE MATCHING" jack and the 2 "REVERB IN/OUT" jacks, there are two other jacks...what do the labels say?

2.) The jack at the far right-hand side (the right side of the reverb jacks)...looks like it says something BALANCE...what's the something?

3.) Under all of those jacks it says "CAUTION: TO PREVENT ELECTRICAL SHOCK...", is there anything (and if so, what?) after the words, "NO USER SERVICABLE PARTS INSIDE"? Actually, what do those two lines say exactly?

Other than that, I think I've got all of the text for the back panel...just need those last little ditties....

Happy Holidays to all!
Jim


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Post subject: Re: Classic Twin Reverb Cabinet Diagrams?
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:42 am
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Never mind...just found a decent pdf.


Jim


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