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Post subject: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:15 pm
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Hi, guys. Would you still consider an amp that was made late March early April 65 to be Pre-CBS?


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:12 pm
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No.

However, if it can be documented that at least some of the major chassis components were made in 1964 then the amp may rightfully be deemed a "transitional" model.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:21 pm
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The front panel says Fender Musical Instruments and the back still says Fender Electric Instruments.


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 6:54 pm
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No,but like Arjay said some of the parts can be pre CBS,really it's no different as far as the components are concerned,it just has that CBS stigma...no big deal to me.
The guitars are where the big money is,the amps are still pretty reasonable.


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 8:07 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
No,but like Arjay said some of the parts can be pre CBS,really it's no different as far as the components are concerned,it just has that CBS stigma...no big deal to me.
The guitars are where the big money is,the amps are still pretty reasonable.


+1

Just don't let anybody try to sell you a "pre-CBS Pro Reverb".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:57 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Rebelsoul wrote:
No,but like Arjay said some of the parts can be pre CBS,really it's no different as far as the components are concerned,it just has that CBS stigma...no big deal to me.
The guitars are where the big money is,the amps are still pretty reasonable.


+1

Just don't let anybody try to sell you a "pre-CBS Pro Reverb".

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Arjay
Exactly! in Teagle and Sprungs book,I think I got the names right,they state that some examples of the Pro Reverb are labeled Fender Electric Instruments,but all are CBS....off the top of my head I can't remember the date of my PR but I think it's an early one,but it's marked Fender Musical Instruments.


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:27 pm
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The AB165 circuits (Bassman and Pro Reverb) were the last to be designed by Leo prior to his sale of the company to CBS in January of '65. AFAIK, he completed work on them in the fall of '64 and Fender Sales, Inc ordered the first examples of these amps in late November or early December. None were actually shipped to dealers before the CBS junta rode into Fullerton though. Thus, while both of these amps may have made use of existing parts on inventory (ie: those sold to the former "FEIC") they were all CBS-era amps. The Pro Reverb, while hyped as an all-new model in the early spring of '65, was actually similar in chassis architecture to the AB763-based Vibroverb. The AB165 Bassman deviated from the previous AA864 circuit in the biasing arrangement and by abandoning the four-stage pre-amp of the "bass instrument" channel. The final all-new amp to be designed, engineered, and sold by FEIC would be the first of the AA864 Vibrolux Reverb models.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:33 am
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All in the eyes of the beholder. :wink:

I doubt anyone here would refuse to own a silverface Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb given the opportunity to get one at a good price. :D


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:39 am
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I wasn't thinking late last night when I posted that my Pro Reverb was an early one...it's an early '66...it's a great amp.


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:47 am
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nope CBS took over Jan 1st 1965


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:40 am
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joncarr1979 wrote:
nope CBS took over Jan 1st 1965


The sale was actually finalized with Leo's signature on the afternoon of the 4th.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:44 am
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phansford wrote:
All in the eyes of the beholder. :wink:

I doubt anyone here would refuse to own a silverface Princeton Reverb or Deluxe Reverb given the opportunity to get one at a good price. :D


Indeed!

The "pre-CBS" mystique has more appeal to amp snobs who collect rather than play these sonic beauties.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 5:30 pm
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I can say in my limited experience of 44 some odd years of trying to chase tone that there's not anything to the "pre CBS" myth that after the takeover things changed immediately,it was a few years before any noticable difference came about in sound.
You only have to play examples of CBS BF and early SF amps to be convinced.


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:01 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
I can say in my limited experience of 44 some odd years of trying to chase tone that there's not anything to the "pre CBS" myth that after the takeover things changed immediately,it was a few years before any noticable difference came about in sound.
You only have to play examples of CBS BF and early SF amps to be convinced.


+1

All stayed copasetic until the spring of '68 when the hottentots that CBS brought in to run Fender's amp division put their imprimateur on the circuits previously deemed to be sacrosanct in a quest to "improve" them. How does one improve perfection? Virtually every revision that those interloping dilettantes dreamed up turned out to be a total tone turd.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Pre CBS
Posted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:50 pm
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I totally agre with you Arjay....that is,all the words I could understand. :lol:
If your guitar lick vocabulary is as colorful as your written words,you're a helluva player. :D


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