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Post subject: 1966 PRO REVERB GRILL CLOTH COULOUR?
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:15 pm
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Does anyone know the original colour of the 65TO 67 BLACKFACE GRILL ?Is it wheat or silver/ oranother colour? when they age what colour would u say that is? wheat perhaps thanks


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:38 pm
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White/silver/black cloth was used on the Pro Reverb from 1965 (its year of introduction) until the advent of the silverface drip-edge cosmetics in late 1967. The white tendrils in the material were actually closer to ivory and yellowed rather quickly, especially when exposed to nicotine.

The current cloth that FMIC uses on its blackface '65 re-issues is incorrect, both in color (too gray) and the size of the weave (too large). Mojotone and Rodgers Amps both sell some "aged" blackface cloth which is closer to the proper shade but still has the overly-big weave pattern.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:44 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
White/silver/black cloth was used on the Pro Reverb from 1965 (its year of introduction) until the advent of the silverface drip-edge cosmetics in late 1967. The white tendrils in the material were actually closer to ivory and yellowed rather quickly, especially when exposed to nicotine.

The current cloth that FMIC uses on its blackface '65 re-issues is incorrect, both in color (too gray) and the size of the weave (too large). Mojotone and Rodgers Amps both sell some "aged" blackface cloth which is closer to the proper shade but still has the overly-big weave pattern.

HTH

Arjay
WOW!! YOUR REALLY KNOWYOUR STUFF !!!1 The 67 proreverb i order doesnt have the original grill cloth(thats the only non original thing on it) the fender emblemthankfully is supposedly original also. Now guitar center mentioned to me that the replaced grill cloth on mine(when i get it) is a wheat colour and the weave looks incorrect also ,tellin me thats the standard coulour of that amp ,I didnt think so ,i hope the wheat looks good when i see this amp in person (yes i bought it without trying this amp out :lol: ) guitar center 30 days money back you cant go wrong) what vintage amp would u say has a wheat couloured grill cloth with the black tolex(just so i can get agood idea what this amp im getting will look like in person(the one pic columbus had of this amp wasnt really great , it was taken with a cheap camera. thanks!


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 6:42 pm
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I don't think "wheat" was used with any of the blackface amps. I have seen it used on some restorations but it wouldn't be my first choice -- I generally use the current FMIC cloth which isn't correct either. But until a source for more accurate cloth comes forth, it's what we're stuck with. Here's a pic of my recently-restored '67 Showman......

Image

Compare and contrast with my all-original '65 Princeton Reverb......

Image

The Showman came out swell but you can see the differences between vintage cloth and the reproduction.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:35 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I don't think "wheat" was used with any of the blackface amps. I have seen it used on some restorations but it wouldn't be my first choice -- I generally use the current FMIC cloth which isn't correct either. But until a source for more accurate cloth comes forth, it's what we're stuck with. Here's a pic of my recently-restored '67 Showman......

Image

Compare and contrast with my all-original '65 Princeton Reverb......

Image

The Showman came out swell but you can see the differences between vintage cloth and the reproduction.

HTH
11
Arjay
THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!! Your amps arein amazing condition. that princeton reverb is making me drool :lol: l that is sweet!!!Ilove the aged look of that grill cloth .Ii was under the impression that i would be able to get THAT AGED GRILL LOOK thats a shame. Would u ever attempt to age your show man?BUTTHAT AMP LOOKS LIKE A REISSUE IF THEY HAD ONE(I HOPE IM QUOTING IN THE RIGHT SPOT :oops: THE SHOWMAN LOOKS GREAT!!!


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:40 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
I don't think "wheat" was used with any of the blackface amps. I have seen it used on some restorations but it wouldn't be my first choice -- I generally use the current FMIC cloth which isn't correct either. But until a source for more accurate cloth comes forth, it's what we're stuck with. Here's a pic of my recently-restored '67 Showman......

Image

Compare and contrast with my all-original '65 Princeton Reverb......

Image

The Showman came out swell but you can see the differences between vintage cloth and the reproduction.

HTH
11
Arjay
THAT IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE!!!! Your amps arein amazing condition. that princeton reverb is making me drool :lol: l that is sweet!!!Ilove the aged look of that grill cloth .Ii was under the impression that i would be able to get THAT AGED GRILL LOOK thats a shame. Would u ever attempt to age your show man?BUTTHAT AMP LOOKS LIKE A REISSUE IF THEY HAD ONE(I HOPE IM QUOTING IN THE RIGHT SPOT :oops: THE SHOWMAN LOOKS GREAT!!!


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:43 pm
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Like I mentioned, "aged" cloth is available. And it looks closer to vintage as far as the color goes. But the weave is still too big so it kinda defeats the intent. I have a small stock of NOS cloths (both blackface and silverface era) but I'm hoarding that stuff for the time that some really "special" projects may arise.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:58 pm
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And lest there be any doubt as to the veracity of my assertions regarding grill cloth......

Image

On the left is authentic-and-nearly-pristine blackface cloth from 1966 -- on the right, repro blackface cloth as currently used by FMIC. The ruler tells the entire sordid tale.

(the photo belongs to a friend from another forum)

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:00 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Like I mentioned, "aged" cloth is available. And it looks closer to vintage as far as the color goes. But the weave is still too big so it kinda defeats the intent. I have a small stock of NOS cloths (both blackface and silverface era) but I'm hoarding that stuff for the time that some really "special" projects may arise.

Arjay
I dont blame you if this stuff is so rare. ILL do some research where to order if i really hate the wheat or whatever that coulour is. I can tell even by the crappy pic of this amp(my soon to be amp from columbus) that the weave is wrong the texture even looks heavier. Who am I kidding IM very picky about these things. HOWmuch of a price drop on these amps is there if lets say everthing is a close 10 all original except the cloth, obviously alot 5 or 6 hundred easy


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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:22 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
White/silver/black cloth was used on the Pro Reverb from 1965 (its year of introduction) until the advent of the silverface drip-edge cosmetics in late 1967. The white tendrils in the material were actually closer to ivory and yellowed rather quickly, especially when exposed to nicotine.

The current cloth that FMIC uses on its blackface '65 re-issues is incorrect, both in color (too gray) and the size of the weave (too large). Mojotone and Rodgers Amps both sell some "aged" blackface cloth which is closer to the proper shade but still has the overly-big weave pattern.

HTH

Arjay
im very concerned about this, damn :evil: i bought my1967pro reverb knowing it wasnt the original cloth thinking (oh well im sure i can find some somewhere that is close to the original cloth. :o , :and non original cloth doesnt effect sound ,so i will buy it :wink: .u know $2000 is relatively cheapfor a nall original clean clean pro reverb :wink: . replace the cloth to a close looking original cloth andvoila as good as new :oops: (i might send this back and find a completet all original pro reverb ) im so pickey i cant play non nitro :shock: strats :lol: :?(just kidding all u poly strat cats)


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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:18 am
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You know man,you're not going to find many amps 40+ years old in completely original condition...no matter what anyone tells you.
I've seen many "original" amps with replaced parts...that the current owner doesn't even know about.
You can look at it inside and tell what's been replaced if you know what to look for...and I'm sure that if you don't know what to look for there's someone here who does.
You can play it and make music or buy something that looks original....I would play it and make good music if it sounds good...if it doesn't,well there's ways to fix that.
Man,even the tweed on new Fender amps isn't the same weave as the old tweed.
Let's don't even get into the differences on your nitro finished Strats...that ain't the same either as the 50s/60s.
Just play it and have fun....or buy a museum piece.


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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:38 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
You know man,you're not going to find many amps 40+ years old in completely original condition...no matter what anyone tells you.


+1

If I were seriously jonesing for a Pro Reverb I would not let an issue like replaced grill cloth stand in my way. If the amp is otherwise sound, reasonably-priced, and gig-worthy then buy it, play it, and enjoy it for what it is. I know a few folks who are so anal that they refuse to buy anything that isn't 100% vintage-correct and all original......

Their collections might fill a thimble (maybe!)

:mrgreen:

Personally, I fix what I can and live with what I can't.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:11 pm
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Amen Arjay!
I learned years ago that the pristine amps may not sound near as good as an old road warrior amp that had been used and kept in good working order.
When you do find a "closet classic" amp,better start getting ready to change 'lytics and other things.
When you see a great player with a beat up ol' amp that sounds great....and wonder why he sounds so good,it's because he's dragged that amp around for years because it has THAT tone and it keeps getting repaired when it needs it....case in point,Neal Young and his tweed Deluxe.
People drool over vintage guitars or "relic'd guitars",and don't want a true relic'd amp....that's why a '65 Strat costs many thousands more than a '65 Deluxe Reverb.


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Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:15 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
When you do find a "closet classic" amp,better start getting ready to change 'lytics and other things.


Indeed!

One of the first things I do, even before I actually write a check for some vintage piece, is to ascertain as much as I can about the particulars -- the pedigree, its history (if known), and any maintenance/service issues. I don't want any surprises once it hits my bench for refurbishment and/or makeover. I'm negotiating for an old road warrior at this very moment and though I haven't yet seen the "article" personally, I've exchanged some two dozen e-mails with the owner and, thanks to photos and a candid discussion, I have a pretty clear idea of what it will take to "bring it back" from the precipice both electronically and cosmetically. Combined with my "sweat equity" I anticipate doubling my investment (assuming that the deal is consummated).

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 7:46 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
I don't think "wheat" was used with any of the blackface amps. I have seen it used on some restorations but it wouldn't be my first choice -- I generally use the current FMIC cloth which isn't correct either. But until a source for more accurate cloth comes forth, it's what we're stuck with. Here's a pic of my recently-restored '67 Showman......

Image

Compare and contrast with my all-original '65 Princeton Reverb......

Image

The Showman came out swell but you can see the differences between vintage cloth and the reproduction.

HTH

Arjay
Sorry about my late reply!! Those amps indeed look amazing ! and Iagree, IDIDNT REALIZE how difficult it was to find the same coulour or weave, pattern, Iwonder if someone out there just has an original grill cloth for sale ?lol!!!Whos the best here online selling these grillcloth ?Iknow there are a few, but who do you recomend?


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