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Post subject: "external speaker" speaker option on blackface bas
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:09 pm
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wondering if any of you fellas know if this is true or not:

i was told that the external speaker out on a blackface bassman is a preamp out and that if i want to run to an additional cab or into a power amp with an attenuator.. i dont need to split the ohms. this sounds too good to be true.

the question that this was the answer to that im asking yr second opinion here was:

if i want to use a slave with its own cab.. and take the tone from my bassman.. would i be able to run the "regular" bassman speaker out into its speaker cab.. and then use the "external" speaker out and put it into a slave.. with or without an attenuator.. and on top of that.. what ohms am i looking at with all outs.. ie.. what ohm attenuator will i have to get.. 4 or 2?.. and what cab would i have to use with the regular speaker out that normally goes to the stock 4ohm?

thanks guys.


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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:22 pm
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so i just read a post on cross wiring:

"...ONE THING YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW----if you plug in to input 1 on either channel of that Super Reverb, you can plug another cord into input 2 of the same channel and run it over to the input of a second amplifier. Sound will come out of the second amp as if you were plugged into it. It's called "cross-wiring". and that accounts for the old pix of great bands with several Fenders onstage--more amps than guitar players.....the volume doubles or triples and the sound is fabulous..."

it is in reference to a super reverb.. but is this possible with any amp?.. can i accomplish what id like to do by cross wiring?.. using an instrument cable from input 2.. into the input to a power amp?.. and it does nothing to the existing ohm out that my bassman would be running?.. or does this bypass the tone and only carry the signal from my guitar over.. so i would have no preamp.. no colour..

in doing this cross wiring.. could you put effects between the #2 input that its going into the input of the additional amp that would only carry over to that additional amp?

[sorry i didnt read this before..]


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Post subject: Re: "external speaker" speaker option on blackface
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:51 pm
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caesuradelve wrote:
wondering if any of you fellas know if this is true or not:

i was told that the external speaker out on a blackface bassman is a preamp out and that if i want to run to an additional cab or into a power amp with an attenuator.. i dont need to split the ohms. this sounds too good to be true.

the question that this was the answer to that im asking yr second opinion here was:

if i want to use a slave with its own cab.. and take the tone from my bassman.. would i be able to run the "regular" bassman speaker out into its speaker cab.. and then use the "external" speaker out and put it into a slave.. with or without an attenuator.. and on top of that.. what ohms am i looking at with all outs.. ie.. what ohm attenuator will i have to get.. 4 or 2?.. and what cab would i have to use with the regular speaker out that normally goes to the stock 4ohm?

thanks guys.


Whoever told you that is full of CRAP!

Said miscreant should be fed into a wood-chipper feet first.

The speaker jacks -- both the primary and the extension -- are exactly that......period!

They are wired in parallel to the output tranny and the total impedance load regardless of the number of cabinets or speakers connected to the amp should not represent anything less than 4Ω for safe and reliable amplifier operation.

Arjay

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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:59 pm
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haha. i thought so!.. so ideally then, i can run regular speaker out to a 4 ohm cab.. and external speaker out to a 4 ohm attenuator.. and its gold?...

know anything about that "cross wiring" comment?

thanks dude.


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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:16 pm
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No you cannot.

You can have your 4Ω cab or you can have your 4Ω attenuator.

But not both.

Four ohms total impedance load.

You can jumper channels to your heart's content, no problem. You can also insert effects within the loop to the second channel (or second amp), no problem.

I often use both channels of a Fender amp or two Fender amps in tandem, but I prefer controlling them with an A/B/Y footswitch.

Beware of ground-lift problems when using two amps especially if they are from different companies (this can get you killed) and beware of channel-phase reversal when using certain vintage Fenders especially the reverb-equipped combos.

HTH

Arjay

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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:42 pm
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now im lost. "total" would mean id have to split it into two 2's? how do they expect you to use the external if it comes with a stock 4?.. no matter what yr always going to be using the 4 ohm stock... so how can you run the external and the stock together to get a total? or is the external only set up to be used by itseld?.. if thats the case.. whats the point.. why wouldnt you just use the regular?

how do these cats do it with running stereo cabs outta one head?

jumpering out of the input into an input wont pop anything? ground lift issues meaning?

dont mean to bother you man.. im interested!.. yr just being surface level with things and not givin me enough detail..

thanks again.


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Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:42 pm
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Let us look at the speaker question, OK ? For the amp to live a long and happy life, it needs a 4ohm load. Like Arjay said, the ext spkr jack is in parallel with the main spkr jack, and is only active when the main spkr jack is being used. Now, with the stock 4ohm cab plugged into the main jack, this is gold. If an additional 4ohm cab is plugged into the ext jack, the TOTAL load would be 2ohms. The amp can tolerate this, but it's working pretty hard to keep up the power. This means extra heat and wear on the amp. Why did Fender put the ext jack on the amp ? Because this is OK for a gig once in a while, not as a steady diet. Weber does make a unit that would allow you to go into the main spkr jack at 4ohms and then run more speakers, while still maintaining the 4ohm load. Hope this gives some idea about the subject. Art

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Post subject: Cross wiring
Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:37 pm
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caesuradelve wrote:
so i just read a post on cross wiring:

"...ONE THING YOU MIGHT NOT KNOW----if you plug in to input 1 on either channel of that Super Reverb, you can plug another cord into input 2 of the same channel and run it over to the input of a second amplifier... but is this possible with any amp?..


Yes, any amp with two inputs can be connected like this. Noise can be a factor depending on how the input jacks on the two amps are wired (grounded to chassis, or isolated).

caesuradelve wrote:
can i accomplish what id like to do by cross wiring?.. using an instrument cable from input 2.. into the input to a power amp?.. and it does nothing to the existing ohm out that my bassman would be running?.. or does this bypass the tone and only carry the signal from my guitar over.. so i would have no preamp.. no colour..


I think that the "cross wiring" is what you want, but the tone of your bassman will not affect the tone of the slaved amp, it's only your guitar signal. Since you are using the input jacks, the "ohms" of the output of the amp has nothing to do with it, you aren't using the speaker outs. You can daisy chain several amps using the input jacks, but your guitar signal can only go so far.

caesuradelve wrote:
in doing this cross wiring.. could you put effects between the #2 input that its going into the input of the additional amp that would only carry over to that additional amp?


Yes. The effects would only go through the second amp. If you had a preamp out of your Bassman, you could use that into another amp, then the tone of the Bassman would drive the slaved amp. Only use the speaker outs to connect to speakers. :)

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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 3:50 am
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ah ha!.. alright guys. thanks.. so if i were to use two 8ohms.. im good.. because in parallel they would be 4. makes sense. no one ever taught me this $@!&. im a drummer..

so now my question is.. how hard is it to mod a head to put a pre amp out in it?.. know of any good sites that might explain how to do such a thing?..

the reason im trying to figure this out.. [feel free to suggest something here].. is because i just came across a sweeet vintage orange power amp.. its the same as the or125.. just without the preamp.. it only has one knob.. which is volume.. it has that orange crunch.. but plugging my pedal board into it.. its not loud enough.. i need something in the 15 to 25 watt range i believe to effectively use it..

any suggestions on how i might be able to use this thing?


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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:17 am
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First of all : never modify a Blackface it's a piece of history.

Second, if you have problem with ohms , modify a amp for preamp out, you are better to forget that.

Buy a speaker attenuator like Weber Mass. It have a line out

www.webervst.com


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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:55 pm
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Yeah, I agree with Stratele, about not modding the Bassman ! I would go with the Weber Z-Matcher for extra speaker cabs and/or a lineout to the Orange power amp and it's speaker cab. If you want to have an attentuator and even more versatility the Weber Mass would be the route to go. The Weber site has plenty of info on how to use each unit. But if you're at all unsure, I'd give them a call. Art

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Posted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:14 pm
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this is great guys.. never knew about it. i have a hotplate running backwards.. seems to be the same as the mass.. just an expensive dummy load.

thanks for yr helps.


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