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Post subject: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:59 am
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I have several of these speakers. Some have gray frame with orange label. Some have orange frame/orange label. Some have gray label. They all look to have similar construction. Any other differences besides paint?

Much thanks!


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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:41 am
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The D130F's have a larger voice coil, and can handle a little more power than the D130's.
The F at the end of D120F, D130F or D140F was used to note a speaker that was sold to Fender for use in its amplifiers.

The orange frames are JBL D120F's in the 12" speakers, and JBL D130F's in the 15" series.

This is what Harvey Gerst, JBL designer says :

"There was 2 ( 12" ) models. The D120, and the D120F. The D120 is the grey one. The D120F is orange and was the one Fender had made for them. The F model has a bigger voice coil gap to allow for slop in baffle flatness, but it takes an efficiency hit."

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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:01 am
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Miami Mike wrote:
The D130F's have a larger voice coil, and can handle a little more power than the D130's.


Not true. Both speakers use a 4-inch voice coil former but the "F" variant's coil is composed of a re-formulated Kapton that was specifically enhanced for thermal resistance. As well, the D130F has a slightly wider magnet gap. Both drivers were designed to handle 35 watts RMS (continuous program material).


Miami Mike wrote:
The F at the end of D120F, D130F or D140F was used to note a speaker that was sold to Fender for use in its amplifiers.


True, at least at first. Sunn, Kustom, and Standel (among a few others) also used the F-series speakers. Sunn would later request its contract-purchased OEM JBL's be marked as "S" versions. Thus, D130S and D140S speakers may occasionally be encountered. As near as I can tell, they remained identical in every aspect to the original F-series. Sunn's 4 x 12 Sceptre amp was offered with optional D123S drivers, which was a speaker based on JBL's D123 hi-fi speaker. It featured a 3-inch voice coil and a 6-lb alnico magnet.

Miami Mike wrote:
The orange frames are JBL D120F's in the 12" speakers, and JBL D130F's in the 15" series.


The orange frame (with the companion black magnet cover) was a cosmetic change requested by FMI circa 1969.

Miami Mike wrote:
This is what Harvey Gerst, JBL designer says :

"There was 2 ( 12" ) models. The D120, and the D120F. The D120 is the grey one. The D120F is orange and was the one Fender had made for them. The F model has a bigger voice coil gap to allow for slop in baffle flatness, but it takes an efficiency hit."


Negative. There was never was a "D120". The closest relative to the D120F was the 12-inch D131 full-range hi-fi speaker whose frame and magnet structure was adapted for use as a musical instrument loudspeaker. The D131 was functionally similar to the original 15-inch D130 hi-fi driver, using an identical voice coil, suspension, and magnet structure.

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:09 pm
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Arjay thanks, for the info!


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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:08 am
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You're welcome, BMW.

However, in the various meanderings which this thread has taken, it seems like we've neglected to address your original question -- sorry about that.

The original JBL's as developed into musical instrument speakers for Fender in the early '60s had gray frames and magnet covers, with the foil-cal on the rear of the magnet cover in a gold/silver format. As other companies began to offer these speakers in their various products, Fender requested some exclusive identification from JBL. Sometime in 1967 the colors of the foil-cal were changed to orange/silver, with a Fender logo added to the right side. Then in '69 the entire line of speakers produced for Fender received a total cosmetic re-make: The frame color was changed to orange and the magnet cover was painted black (the foil-cal remained in orange/silver with the Fender logo slightly enlarged).

The above applies to the 12-inch and 15-inch speakers -- the 10's started out as an all-black speaker, changing to the orange/black scheme around 1970. The foil-cal colors were as with the larger drivers and followed the same timeline regarding alterations.

Fender was not the only company to request specific colors from JBL. In my archives I have a photo of a 15-inch speaker made for Vox. The frame and magnet are the standard gray but the foil-cal is in blue/silver, with the Vox logo printed in black (I have no idea what Vox amp used this driver).

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:05 pm
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Arjay, Very informative. Thanks, again. One thing that I've found amongst the hodgepodge of JBL's in my stash, the 12-inchers have a fairly consistent tone as do the 15-inchers. Regardless of vintage. As long as you place them into the same cabs for comparison & the cones/VC's are in good working order.

That's something I can't say about some other speaker brands.


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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:51 pm
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Stay away from the JBL 10's. They're absolutely......evil!

They sound like somebody torturing a smoke detector with an ice pick.

There should be a law against them.

A capitol federal statute with a mandatory death penalty.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 3:44 am
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Greetings -

I just stumbled onto this site this evening, and felt compelled to pipe in because there is so much misinformation to clear up.

First of all, the grey basket D series speakers provided to Fender for production after the changes were made to the HiFi speakers, ALWAYS had the F suffix. As Rock Icon stated, there was never a D120. The D120F and D130F series voice coils were not larger than the D131 & D130 voice coils. I know this because I have seen D120 kits in a D131 basket.

As commonly known, the D120F was created because Fender originally used the D131, which was a failure for the following reasons. 1) The thin and cheap particle board baffles Fender used caused the basket to flex ever so slightly when the speaker was pushed to the limit, which in turn caused the V.C. to rub in the gap. I do find the basket flexing issue a bit hard to swallow, but that's what I was told. 2) The paper surround failed because it was not designed for high excursion and excessive power, which in turn would also allow the V.C. to rub. The new 12" speaker was developed at that time for Fender by means of increasing the gap width, and switching to the linen surround.

This was told to me by Gary Margolis in 1975 when I contacted him requesting information about the orange/black series, since at the time I owned twelve orange/black D140F's, four orange/black D120F's, and two orange/black D110F's. What Gary told me was later corroborated by Everett Watts in a conversation I had with him about 5 years ago.

And for those who might have believed the yarn that Dick Dale invented the D130F, you can stop now. Dick Dale, is not a loud speaker engineer, but he probably did blow up several D130's. Yes, I found myself on a few occasions playing music at his bar in Garden Grove.

From Rock Icon:

"The orange frame (with the companion black magnet cover) was a cosmetic change requested by FMI circa 1969."

That's interesting, considering the orange/black D series didn't come into existence until 1974. I have a vivid recollection of this because of the flap it caused within the community of musicians in my area in Southern California.

Now to the Orange/Black D series. As told to me by Gary Margolis;

The orange/black D series speakers was a short lived transitional move when JBL developed the K series cone kits. All the original orange/black drivers had K series cone kits installed. It was at that time JBL began to manufacture higher temperature/increased power handling cone kits for the M.I market. JBL must have had a fit, because when the word got out that the orange/blacks handled more power, I personally knew three guitar players who used the D120F's in their Twins, and blew them up on a regular basis. When I commented about it to one of the players his remark was, " Who cares, they're under warranty".

JBL may have been holding out with the orange/blacks because the K145 & K151 weren't ready for release. Those basket assemblies after all, were completely new to the roster, and their release may have been held up for logistical reasons.

Now to the orange domes. It's a common belief by some knuckleheads on Ebay, that the orange domes were exclusive to Fender, which they weren't. In 1974 a friend of mine had four grey D140R's with orange domes ( R for Rogers Organ ) loaded in dual straight axis horn enclosures he purchased from Skip Konte, formally of Blues Image, Manna, and 3 Dog Night. Not all D series speakers made for Fender had orange domes. The dual 15" horn enclosures were part of the Manna P.A. Skip sold off.

From Rock Icon;

"the 10's started out as an all-black speaker, changing to the orange/black scheme around 1970."

The D110 began it's life as an orange/black, then switched to all black when the K series was formally introduced in 1975. There was never a grey D110F. The D110F basket assembly was a carry over from the LE10 HiFi speaker which WAS black. It's obvious where Rock Icon may have gotten confused. Again, the orange/black didn't come into existence until 1974.

Ciao!


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:39 am
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Horn Fanatic,

Thank you for all the information, very useful for all JBL lovers.

:D


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:24 am
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Horn Fanatic,

Much thanks! BTW... are you into JBL compression drivers/horns? I've built several DIY hi-fi speakers using 375, LE85, and LE185 driver-horns. I sold my 4311 & 4345 monitors many moons ago. I still have a Summit, that I need to go through the crossover caps. And a couple of DIY 130A subwoofers. One day...

Of all the JBL speakers in my Fender amps, the D130F in my brownface Pro is the best matchup. That amp and that speaker are awesomely good. No holes in the frequency range. Very good bass, mids, and highs on demand. I haven't heard a 5F6-A Bassman with original Jensen P10Q's --- but the single D130F in the 6G5-A Pro has the one of the best low-mids.

Have a good one!


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:47 am
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Horn Fanatic wrote:
The D110 began it's life as an orange/black, then switched to all black when the K series was formally introduced in 1975. There was never a grey D110F. The D110F basket assembly was a carry over from the LE10 HiFi speaker which WAS black. It's obvious where Rock Icon may have gotten confused. Again, the orange/black didn't come into existence until 1974.


"The D110 began it's life as an orange/black, then switched to all black when the K series was formally introduced in 1975."

"Again, the orange/black didn't come into existence until 1974."

Well, which is it?

In 1976 I bought a brand-new pair of D110F's and installed them in a '66 Vibrolux Reverb, one of the biggest mistakes I've ever made. The store (The Vox Room in Sacramento, CA) was out of stock and they had to be special-ordered direct from JBL in LA. They were all black.

I'm confused about nothing.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 9:36 am
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Arjay,

Is it true that the Zodiac Line of Fender amps had OEM JBL speakers with orange baskets? Of was it just orange oval labels on the gray crinkled magnet assembly?


Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:46 am
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The Zodiac's were all OEM-equipped with D-series JBL's. Every one I ever saw had standard gray-basket speakers with the orange-and-silver foil-cal affixed to the magnet shield. As well, they all had the anodized-orange dust-cover domes, likely to complement the then-new orange-stripe grill cloth.

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: JBL D120F & D130F's
Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:59 am
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I have a 66 Twin Reverb with JBL D131F speakers. They appear to be original to the amp. Any info would be appreciated


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