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Post subject: Silverface Showman Reverb TFL5000D
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:51 am
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Hello fellow Fender amp enthusiasts! I am brand new to this site and have some questions about my old Showman Reverb TFL 5000D I hope you can help me with. Unfortunately, I'm no amp tech, a bit of a luddite, and borderline computer illiterate, so I don't know how to post pictures online. I'd like to date and identify circuitry in this TFL 5000D. Here's what I can tell you:
Silverface, no master volume, faceplate and tube chart both read " Showman Reverb Amp" (not Dual), no dates or production numbers on tube chart, front grill has aluminum "drip guard", grill cloth is thin and has no blue fibers, front board is not ported, large Fender emblem with tail, rear plate reads "Fender Musical Instruments...Santa Ana, Calif.", serial number stamped in rear chassis reads A 13862( I've read these are at best problematic for dating), latest EIA codes on parts I've checked seem to indicate 1966, tho' once again I didn't know where to look for all of them. Some questions: I've seen Fender amps both older and newer than this one with either Fullerton or Santa Ana addresses-did production overlap? I've also read that early TFL 5000Ds have been identified that may have one of several circuits-how can one identify which? Finally, there is no "dual" mentioned on amp, tho' these are always identified as "Dual Showmans"-are all silverface showman reverbs
"dual amplifiers"? I know that's a lot for a first post, but I've been pestered. Any and all help is much appreciated, THANKS!


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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:11 am
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The EIA manufacturers codes stamped on the trannies and the pots are your best method of definitively dating this amp.

From your description the amp sounds like it may be a '68 (first year of production for this model) but I'd have to see the cosmetics in detail to confirm this. This would be the AC568 circuit revision -- less desireable from the standpoint of tone than the earlier AB763 variant.

If you have a good shot of the front panel showing both the knobs and the grill cloth, e-mail it to me and I'll try to be more specific.

<phantoms4ever(at)cox(dot)net>

HTH

Arjay

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Post subject: Thanks, Retroverbial!
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:44 am
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Thanks for your quick reply. When my wife gets home I'll see if she knows how to forward photos. Guess I'm getting simple in my old age...which may explain my affinity for classic Fender amps...old and simple.


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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:31 pm
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Standing by......

Arjay

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Post subject: Info update TFL 5000D Showman Reverb
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 3:16 pm
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Sorry about the delay, my more technologically inclined missus works late Sundays. Unfortunately, she told me she has blocked the message-sending service on our cell cameras-said she was tired of paying for unsolicited texts. A photo may take a bit. Anyhow, a little further inspection of the chassis revealed a faded ink stamp between power tubes and back plate that reads F094166(or 8, last number seems smeared/melted). Do you know what, if anything, these numbers represent? Thanks for any help!


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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:18 pm
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Possibly, "41st week of 68", which would be consistent with the drip-edge molding around the grill cloth -- there were no DSR's in '66 (the last digit is probably an "8").

HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Thanks Again, Arjay!
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:06 pm
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Thanks for all your help in my quest. All of your input is much appreciated. I had heard rumors that chassis ink stamps could be a clue to dating, but was unsure if they were accurate, and what configurations meant what.


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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:21 pm
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Here's Fender's original pre-introduction PR puff sheet for the Dual Showman Reverb......

Image

Needless to say, loading and transporting this behemoth proved to be a logistical nightmare (I did manage to fit one into the back seat of my mom's '67 Plymouth Valiant though).

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 9:53 pm
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Just a comment: TFL5000D is kind of a generic designation for three different circuits(AA768,AA769. AA270). To differentiate between the 768 and 769, you'll have to look at the bias circuit for the power tubes. It will be quite evident, when comparing the schems. Try http//schematicheaven.com . Art

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Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:56 pm
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CBS added a master volume in 1972 and increased the overall output to 135 watts in 1977. This change coincided with the introduction of the crappy-sounding pull-boost feature, Line Out jack socket, hum balance pot and ultralinear transformer on many silverfaced amps made during that period. Few late 1970s Dual Showman Reverbs were sold with a Zodiac grillcloth, though I'm not as 100% certain.


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Post subject:
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 11:46 pm
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Good point Chrome, but I think we're looking at the first iteration Showman Reverb. More than likely it's the 768 model. " the river flows around the rock" Lao Tzu. Hang in there Arjay ! Art

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Post subject: The Investigation Continues...
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 5:45 am
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Once again, thanks to all, you guys are johnny-on-the-spot! The head in the Fender PR sheet looks exactly like mine-no "Dual" on faceplate, same faded gold/silver/black grill cloth, same aluminum drip guard, knob configuration, etc. I'll be downloading/comparing and trying to make heads or tails out of schematics when I get home from work to help identify circuit. I've got another question if y'all are willing. Right now I've got three cabs at home:1) Fender dt412 (c. late '90's? got at a hockshop 6 years ago for $100, looks like it was never used); 2) '70's Earth 8x8 PA/Bass cab somebody just left in my basement 20+ years ago after a jam session; 3) single Jensen 15" in a tiny (and I do mean tiny) homemade cab I bought at a garage sale for $5. The 4x12 sounds okay, but very boomy, not boxy, not overly bassy, but boomy, and a little short on high frequencies. Like all Earth products I've encountered, the 8x8 sounds like total crap, very flat, thin and just plain cheap. Oddly enough, 1x15 is clear, bright and has great response- I know Showman amps were designed with 15" speakers in mind, but I'm worried about overdriving it with power and time, since it is essentially a big speaker mounted on a board in an enclosure smaller than many home loudspeakers. Any suggestions for amp/cab pairings? If necessary I'm willing to trade up/out of any of these (tho' I don't think they have much value) for something appropriate and reasonably priced. Thanks as ever, O.


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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 8:45 am
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First of all, the Dual Showman Reverb needs to see a 4Ω load for optimum performance. The DT412 is 8Ω -- thus you'll have a mismatch that, while not posing any potential harm to the amp, will limit its max output to around 65 watts. As well, the speakers in that DT412 are (to the best of my knowledge) Celestion G12-100Ts -- not exactly the brightest-sounding driver made.

I know nothing of the "Earth" cab so I'll trust your pronouncement that it sounds like a POFS and leave it at that.

The single Jensen you mentioned is probably a C15N or a P15N -- on the best day they ever had, they're good for about 40 watts. Thus, you'd need to be very judicious about using it with your DSR. And again, this single speaker is probably 8Ω so there will be an impedance mismatch issue.

Thus, your options are plentiful -- limited only by your wallet. You could find an original big-box Showman cab (good luck humping that mutha around!), buy a compatible 4Ω enclosure somewhere else, build a 4Ω cab yourself, or upgrade your existing 4 x 12 box by installing a quartet of 16Ω drivers wired in parallel. I favor this last solution and recommend the Eminence Swamp Thangs. This rig will sound obnoxiously punchy and look fabulous as well.

Best of luck, HTH

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Some exploring done...
Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 1:32 pm
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Checked schematics from schematicsheaven and elsewhere on the web and with my limited electrical knowledge this amp does seem to have the AA768 circuit. AA769 was a later revision, AA270 looks to have been brought over from twin reverbs in the early'70's and AC568 only shows up on schemes for non-reverb Dual Showmans. Is this written in stone? My guess would be probably not, as early silverface amps appear to have been constructed in large part based on whatever was left over or available at production time. Well, hell, that's what makes this all so dang interestin'! Still looking for any suggestions on head/cab combinations, particularly those reasonably priced (read: I'm a) cheap & b) poor). Thanks ARJAY for the conversion tip. I do like the DT412 cab-it is solidly built, esp. for a Fender MIM product, not too heavy, and the steel corner protectors and recessed carrying grips are a nice feature. Any ideas about where to find instruction about converting it from 4x12 8ohm to 4x12 16ohm? Thanks to ALL! O.


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Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 3:05 pm
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You'll be wiring four 16Ω speakers in parallel for a total system load of 4Ω. So easy even a caveman can do it.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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