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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:51 am
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OK, boys, you win!

So the pull-out boost is a rubbish piece of crap and the blackface conversion is a tedious task, right?

Then for which reason CBS added the boost and replaced the AA/AB763 with the AA/AC568?


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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:02 pm
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chromeface wrote:
OK, boys, you win!

So the pull-out boost is a rubbish piece of crap and the blackface conversion is a tedious task, right?

Then for which reason CBS added the boost and replaced the AA/AB763 with the AA/AC568?


Probably because the suites wanted it to compete with other amp manufacturers and it was the best they thought they could do with the circuits they had. Could be other reasons who knows. I would have just kept making blackface amps and not try to prove anything and fail and keep being successful.

I take it you never owned one, correct? I usually won't comment on things on things I know absolutely nothing about. Not everything Fender has made past or present has been the greatest thing since sliced bread. And yes, the pull boost is a piece of crap on the silverface amps. There's nothing to win. You just spoke about something without haveing all the facts or experience to back it up. I learn stuff all the time here. It's all good.
Cheer up.

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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:23 pm
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63supro wrote:
chromeface wrote:
OK, boys, you win!

So the pull-out boost is a rubbish piece of crap and the blackface conversion is a tedious task, right?

Then for which reason CBS added the boost and replaced the AA/AB763 with the AA/AC568?


Probably because the suites wanted it to compete with other amp manufacturers and it was the best they thought they could do with the circuits they had. Could be other reasons who knows. I would have just kept making blackface amps and not try to prove anything and fail and keep being successful.

I take it you never owned one, correct? I usually won't comment on things on things I know absolutely nothing about. Not everything Fender has made past or present has been the greatest thing since sliced bread. And yes, the pull boost is a piece of crap on the silverface amps. There's nothing to win. You just spoke about something without haveing all the facts or experience to back it up. I learn stuff all the time here. It's all good.
Cheer up.


It's hard to render an informed opinion about Fender gear -- vintage or contemporary -- when one's only point of reference is owning a Squier Affinity Strat, a Frontman 15G, and a few Mel-Bay chord books.

:mrgreen:

Arjay

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Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:55 pm
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Chrome, it's a good question: Why change a known product ? IMO the reason is muti faceted. The CBS corporation purchase meant a change in advertizing, sales, production, and design aspects of the company. And like Supro suggests, some of these folks probably felt they had something to prove. I certainly wouldn't fault the folks, their loyalty was to CBS and I'm sure they all did what they thought was best for the company and the public. Were mistakes made ? Sure but that's kind of inevitable. As for the specific master volume and gain boost, again Supro suggests the heat from Marshall, Peavey, and eventually Mesa Boogie forced their hand. So what to do ? Well it would be easiest to modify the basic package that you already have....... and so it seems to have gone for some years. This is strictly my simple view. It would be great to hear the real story from the folks who were there at the time. Don't get me wrong, some of these amps are very nice. One of the sweetest Twin Reverbs, I ever had the pleasure to hear and play, is a stock '72 or'73. It is owned by a jazz player-friend of mine. Art

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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:43 am
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It wasn't just CBS. Fender still modifies old circuits to appease young people instead of building from the ground up. The HRD, VM and Sonic series come to mind. My point of view and this is just my opinion and it's worth what you paid for it, is to build something from the ground up. When you modify older circuits, geezers and tone snobs have a point of reference. It's not a good thing. That's where the negative comments come from. I'm a huge fan of Egnater. It's no secret and I recommend them constantly if someone is interested in a HRD series amp. Why? Because every amp Bruce Egnater comes out with is fresh and innovative. Power tube blending, built in watts control and a tone stack that can make just about any guitar sound great. The Tweaker is just off the hook and IMO nothing in it's prece/power range can touch it.

Fender's old amps are what they are and shouldn't be tampered with. Adding cheesy digital effects should be left to companies Line 6, Ibanez, Boss and others who specialize in them. Fender never specialized in digital effects and my GDdec 30 proves it. I can't believe digital effects ca sound so bad and in stereo no less. Put some headphones on and hear all the digital artifacts and weird glitches. Young kids love them and all the feedback and noise associated with them. I don't. The sad thing is a GDdec really doesn't do analog booster pedals very well. Try a Line 6 Spider Jam and it great and a bit more natural sounding. It's still a fun practice tool. I just wish I could put it through a PA and not sound like a Lounge Lizard.

The GDec 3 at least has live backing tracks. All said and done. it all marketing, but the execution of these products needs some more work.

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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:49 am
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chromeface wrote:
OK, boys, you win!

So the pull-out boost is a rubbish piece of crap and the blackface conversion is a tedious task, right?

Then for which reason CBS added the boost and replaced the AA/AB763 with the AA/AC568?
There's been some good answers given,but another one....Leo Fender worked with musicians and listened to them and worked with their suggestions...since he sold the company to CBS and since then,that has not always been the case.
So some bad decisions have been made that almost put the name "Fender" into extinction at times.


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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:58 am
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In the early/mid 80's Fender was almost out of the amp business. In the 80's CBS Fender had a bare bones Strat as I remember and as a cost cutting measure took a tone control out of the circuit. CBS eventually bastardized the whole Fender line. Thank goodness Bill Schultz took over in 85.

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Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:59 am
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63supro wrote:
In the 80's CBS Fender had a bare bones Strat as I remember and as a cost cutting measure took a tone control out of the circuit.


That model also saw the deletion of the hallmark angled jack boat which was UTTER BLASPHEMY to all Strat fans.

Arjay

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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:28 am
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50 Years of Fender is a good book for information on these kinds of things.

Pull boost was definitely added to compete with amps with more gain, although too little too late - Fender was already on the path in the early 70s to be ultra linear when everyone else was wanting Marshalls. Instead of redoing an entire circuit, the pull-boost was a cheap "fix." You got what you paid for.

I think part of the sound quality issue is 2 fold:
Fender was trying to use higher quality parts - stronger transformers, etc. and not realizing that inefficient electronics can contribute significantly to the sound. Think of a sagging rectifier vs. SS - you could say one is ineffecient, but there are many who like that sound.

Other changes were part of the rats nest of wiring that then caused parasitic oscillations and needed more parts added vs. cleaning up the wiring.

Combine all 3 and you have the silverface vs. blackface.

AFAIK, Champs and Princetons were not molested at all from the transition; as for other amps, some more than others.

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Posted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:01 am
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nedorama wrote:
AFAIK, Champs and Princetons were not molested at all from the transition; as for other amps, some more than others.


The same may be said of the Deluxe Reverb, at least up through model year 1977.

Arjay

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