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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:13 am
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Many musicians felt the silverface amps cheap because of the infamous AA/AC568 circuits. This is a minor issue which can be easily fixed by "blackfacing" 'em with the better-sounding AA/AB763.

I like the silverfaces for the master volume and the pull-out boost feature. These huge-sounding amplifiers suck, especially the late 1970s ultralinear models with the 135W RMS and the scripted tailless decals.

The earlier silverface amps with the black lining on the faceplate and the aluminum trim on the grillcloth are also good.

If Fender reissue silverface amps, these babies would feature a blackface circuit, not the AA/AC568 of the originals.


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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:54 pm
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The early SF amps with the aluminum drip edge trim are great amps.


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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:07 pm
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Chrome - you may be the only person I've ever heard of that likes the pull-boost feature. On the 4 SF amps I've played on with the feature that sounded great, the pull-boost sounded like $@!&. Then again, people rave up and down all day about Boss DS1 pedals which I find sound like a shaken jar of angry bees.

No one in their right mind is going to reissue the silverface amps. Why? because they're based on the Blackface amps, which are far more desirable and Fender has been reissuing. As for reissuing a silverface looking amp with blackface insides, the question would be "why? Even the transitional "drip edge" silverfaces are a stepping stone away from their BF.

Think about it. No one ever talks about modding their amps to SF specs...

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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:09 pm
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I was kind of wondering the same thing. I not an expert or very knowledgeable on the various circuit changes from BF to SF amps. But if you are going to reissue a silverface amp that's been "blackfaced" then isn't that just a blackface amp? Then its just a cosmetic issue of the silver faceplate.

The amp names didn't change much from the BF to the SF, just some tweaking of circuits on certain models. So the reissues would start to get confusing. Same named amps, but different circuits with pull/boost. It seems like it would be a marketing nightmare.

I am trying to look at it from a business point of view.

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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 6:55 pm
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chromeface wrote:
Many musicians felt the silverface amps cheap because of the infamous AA/AC568 circuits. This is a minor issue which can be easily fixed by "blackfacing" 'em with the better-sounding AA/AB763.


MNOR ISSUE?!?!?!?

You ever done it, pal?

Backdating an AC568 to an AB763 revision is a helluva lot more involved than snipping a wire or two and changing out some tubes. There's cathode caps in the output stage that need to be heaved, ground lifts that must be eliminated, a real bias control circuit that needs to be fabricated and installed (in lieu of the existing "balance" pot), plus some specific coupling caps that need to be changed.

Let me know after you successfully complete ten or twenty of these conversions.

Arjay

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:49 am
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Double post. Sorry

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Last edited by 63supro on Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:49 am
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It's a total rat's nest in there. It's no minor issue to Blackface a SF Twin with boost circuit or ant SF Twin for that matter. Everything is buried under layers of components and wire. Having had a 76 SF Twin since it was new, the "Pull Boost" was the worst sounding feature on the amp no matter what tubes you used, where the bias was set, or where you set the tone controls. IMO , as soon as you pull that boost or even crank the amp and use the master volume, you unleash the asstone from hell. Keep it on ten, pushed in and pretend it was never there is the best advise I could give. :wink:

Chromeface, why would Fender reissuse an amp that people liked to blackface? Seems redundant to me. Don't get me wrong, I love my SF Twin, but at this point, it's sold and will not be replaced with another Twin. I do have visitation/loan rights.

If you liked the pull boost feature, you probably never owned or even played through one. All my musician cohorts also thought it was a sonic abortion as soon as you pulled "That Knob". Also the tail on the logo has nothing to do with the way a Fender amp sounds and has evolved back and forth over the years.

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:32 am
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63supro wrote:
If you liked the pull boost feature, you probably never owned or even played through one.


When I was at Belgium in the 1970s, I've heard a bunch of musicians playing their instruments into a SF Twin with the pull-boost feature and I was impressed how it sounded.

Depending the tastes, many consider the pull-boost as a worst feature while others like it. Nonetheless, the silverfaced amps had their pros and cons.


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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 8:57 am
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slightly OT - Are silverface amps fairly available in Greece? Is there a decent supply of vintage gear?

I was in Greece in 2004 and I don't recall seeing many music shops - but then again I wasn't looking very hard. There was a shop owner in the Plaka selling his American Strat - He had been in a local band and was just selling the axe in the window of his shop.


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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:06 am
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chromeface wrote:
63supro wrote:
If you liked the pull boost feature, you probably never owned or even played through one.


When I was at Belgium in the 1970s, I've heard a bunch of musicians playing their instruments into a SF Twin with the pull-boost feature and I was impressed how it sounded.

Depending the tastes, many consider the pull-boost as a worst feature while others like it. Nonetheless, the silverfaced amps had their pros and cons.


And the biggest "con" is the pull boost.
Many people used the pull boost Twin, but like myself, never used the pull boost function except while the amp was new to try it out and sadly find out how horrible it really was. The sound turns to a brittle, painful mess with no note definition or decent bottom end. And no, nothing is wrong with my amp. The pull boost Twins were common place and in the countless clubs I personally played and the hundreds of musicians I've met along the way, not one person I know used that feature and many even disabled it. If you never played or owned one you wouldn't know. I've had mine for over 30 years. I speak from professional experience and ownership.

Maybe I have the wrong style Fender logo on it.

:shock:

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:14 pm
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I have to agree on the pull/boost.....hate it and never owned one, thank goodness.


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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 12:46 pm
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Rebelsoul wrote:
I have to agree on the pull/boost.....hate it and never owned one, thank goodness.


I never had a problem with the amp itself and it sounds great as long as you don't use the master volume and keep it at 10.

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:06 pm
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Somebody playing with a pull boost amp and someone playing with one and engaging the pull-boost are 2 different things.

In 3 years, I've engaged the pullboost on my Princeton Reverb twice - when I first bought it, and when I brought it into the tech. haven't ever thought of using it since.

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:56 pm
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IMO Those conversions range in difficulty, depending on the year and the size of the amp. Probably did about ten or more over the years. I'd usually alot myself 6-10 hours per amp, although I wouldn't charge the customer all that time. I tend to spend time planning, visualizing, even sketching out the process. And like Arjay said, sometimes the bias situation could be a little daunting in mounting the hardware, and the rest of it. Some of the work was repetitive, but in my case there were all kinds of models of different vintage. I can't remember a SF being brought in for the conversion only. There was always another issue and the normal maintenance involved. IMHO If I owned one and was happy with it's perfomance, I wouldn't mess with a conversion. Art

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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:53 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
IMO Those conversions range in difficulty, depending on the year and the size of the amp. Probably did about ten or more over the years. I'd usually alot myself 6-10 hours per amp, although I wouldn't charge the customer all that time. I tend to spend time planning, visualizing, even sketching out the process. And like Arjay said, sometimes the bias situation could be a little daunting in mounting the hardware, and the rest of it. Some of the work was repetitive, but in my case there were all kinds of models of different vintage. I can't remember a SF being brought in for the conversion only. There was always another issue and the normal maintenance involved. IMHO If I owned one and was happy with it's perfomance, I wouldn't mess with a conversion. Art


Around 8 eight hours was typical for me Art, so 6-10 hours on your bench is right in the ballpark. And that would be dedicated time, over and above any other maintenance and/or repair issues. I've owned an ultra-linear TR since it was new (1978 vintage) and no, I never bothered backdating the circuit......I just don't touch that knob (the pullboost/master volume pot). Works just fine and stompboxes sound better anyway.

Arjay

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