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Post subject: So what is a heavily modified 67 vibrolux reverb worth?
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:03 pm
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Anyone have a copy of the Amp bluebook? I gotta know just how bad a deal I got on this "Franken Reverb"!


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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:23 pm
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If it's otherwise cosmetically correct (original Tolex, grill cloth, "snowman" knobs, "PATENT PENDING" tilt-back legs, vintage Oxford 10K6's or Jensen C10R's, etc) it's probably worth $900-$1000. But certainly not the $1500+ that pristine-and-unmolested examples of this amp typically command.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:52 pm
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I spoke with S.V.V.A to day about my bastardized amp. The first tube in the chassis from left to right is an RCA 5U4GB. The amp placard says that a GZ34 should go there but someone has scratched that out and written 5U4 there. I took it back and talked to the owner but he is not willing to refund my money, even though he keeps saying that the amp is worth way more than that! He is willing to give me credit towards a different vintage amp but his prices seem sky high. For example, he has a lot of Super Reverbs and a few Deluxe Reverbs but he wants $2400+ for them. One of the Super Reverbs he says is all original but.... here we go again!


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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:02 pm
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Most of Fender's tube-rectified amps switched from the GZ34 to the 5U4GB around 1969. It's possible that with the new P/T the amp can actually use the extra heater current that the latter tube provides. That said, I'd say that your entire ordeal with this byzantine amp now approaches the level of a Beijing fire drill. Have you considered formal legal recourse?

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:21 pm
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Yes I am going to look into taking him to small claims court. I have never done this before so I have no idea what is involved but I would really like to get him to give in before doing this.


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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:59 pm
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Hi there Kieth, and welcome to the forum. Been watching the threads about your amp purchase and discoveries, not the best of situations. I'm just curious as to how the amp was represented to you by the shop? I worked for a collector for years, as an amp tech. It can be very frustrating at times, but I think you will have some leverage in this case. Art

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Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:03 pm
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Mebbe, Art. But mebbe not. It really depends what assurances were made, either verbally or annotated on the bill of sale. Also, what legal comsumer protections are in place to cover such contingencies. You and I have probably seen every manner of hoodwinking and hornswoggling tactic under the sun in this business. Most significantly though, the gentleman went to a gunfight carrying only a 3-inch folding Buck Hunter......he was woefully under-equipped with the knowlege that would've precluded such a switcheroo.

As they say, knowledge is power.

For the answers to make any sense, you gotta ask the right questions.

Arjay


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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:33 am
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I'm sorry to see you have such a bad experience with an amp that should be giving you lots of enjoyment.
I see good amps at Guitar Center in Nashville and bought a '66 Pro Reverb that is in excellent shape,but you really can't take the chassis out and examine what's inside in those situations.
I sat on the floor looking inside the vintage amps with a flashlight looking for anything I could see that could be signs of modification,but still had to take a chance on what was inside....I was fortunate.
The one thing those folks at the music stores don't count on is someone knowing more than they do....one employee walked past me and stopped and said,"don't lick your finger and stick it in there" :roll:
I started to tell him what he could do with his finger,but told him I knew what I was doing. :twisted:
I hope things turn out in your favor.


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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:43 pm
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Thanks for the comments and suggestions (and pity helps a little too). The owner told me that the P/T was changed and all else was original. I looked in the cabinet but did not really know what to look for except that one of the transformers had Fender stamped on it and they both had Schumaker part numbers. The amps sounded great so I trusted him. Armed with much more knowledge, I took the amp back and explained to him that not only was the PT changed, the output transformer was also changed and both were not the correct parts for this model amp. I asked him nicely to take it back minus his 10% re-stocking fee and he said he would only give me credit towards another amp in his inventory. All of his vintage amps look "rode hard and put away wet" and are priced sky high. He has a bunch of them in his back room as well but they are all in varying stages disarray. He keeps telling me that other amps like these are selling for a lot more than what I paid but he is not willing to take it back even with making 10% for doing nothing :?: I am going to take the amp to Fender's regional repair in Orange co. and have them eval it. I will need lots of documentation from as many pros I can get in order to convince any small claims judge. Stamped in small letters on his receipt: "no refunds" "sold as is", restocking fee, etc, etc, so I'm probably out of luck. :(


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Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:18 pm
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This wouldn't by chance be "Freedom Guitar" dba "Vintage Headquarters" on Ebay, would it?

Arjay


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Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 5:37 pm
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I don't want to say right now now because i am still trying to work with the owner to resolve this.


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Posted: Sun May 02, 2010 7:26 pm
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67vibrolux wrote:
He keeps telling me that other amps like these are selling for a lot more than what I paid but he is not willing to take it back even with making 10% for doing nothing :?: I am going to take the amp to Fender's regional repair in Orange co. and have them eval it. I will need lots of documentation from as many pros I can get in order to convince any small claims judge. Stamped in small letters on his receipt: "no refunds" "sold as is", restocking fee, etc, etc, so I'm probably out of luck. :(


That sucks really he should refund you the full amount especially since its not what you paid for. Seems to me he wants the money.

If it was posted on ebay and doesn't mention changes that where made from the original then legally you didn't receive the item that was advertised. problem with verbal discussion is in general its not recorded and become a bit of my word against his... many times i have considered having discussions recorded (when discussing a product which i am interested in buying).

If you can get the Schematic it should have part numbers on it should be easy to prove that they are not original/ true replacement parts to that model. with that you took it to a Fender repair you can probably call him as a witness and mention it in the claim court may order him to pay the cost of that too if your successful.

On other note: Just because the receipt says that doesn't really mean anything he hasn't sold you the right item. I think they put that to deter people from making claims.

As an example hear in Australia some shopping grounds have 2 Hours Free parking shoppers only or risk toe away however its illegal for them to toe you away, only on government signed places they can.

certainly helps to know your legal rights.

Hope it goes well, Stephen

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Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 3:03 am
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I'm sorry for you.

But go to see the owner of the store not the salesman .Go often and ask refund until you receive it.

Go each day

The owner is not happy to see you in the store in case some new customer hear you.

You can win if you fight

It's not too late


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Post subject: Refund
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 7:16 am
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I dont think you should let them get away with it, just keep going back and making a fuss when the store is really busy.

They will soon buy you off.


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Post subject:
Posted: Mon May 03, 2010 9:42 pm
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I'm dealing directly with the owner. He and his brother own the place and have few employees. They are never very busy in there. Stayed tuned.


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