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Post subject: Silverface
Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:53 pm
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I want to know what makes Silverface amps so cheap. Is it because they are poorly made?

My buddy has an old fender champ (Silverface, circa 1970) and it is amazing and I was considering looking for an old silverface Deluxe Reverb or Princton.

Since I have little knowledge of these amps i would like to know if i am wasting my money.

Help me out, Nic.


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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:46 pm
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They are great amps and are the next batch of Fenders that will escalate in price. Especially 68-72. Lots of guys here play them.......... 8) Mike

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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:15 pm
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Not that cheap anymore, price will surely go up. Many of those where still hand wired and many are great amps, well at least I think. The difference from blackface and the price they fetch is Fender increased the voltage in the silverface circuits. From that and other smaller value caps on the power tubes resulted a loss of the sound quality, namely less sparkling highs from the blackface design.


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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 5:17 pm
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The silverface amps are not well built like the blackfaces,( wiring flaws, not so good speakers, no ajustable bias ( only balance) but they are very good amps .
If you like the soud ; buy it,

Any good tech can make it sound close to a blackface if you want.
But you can leave like original too.
Cheaper price than Blackface. Some of them built in 68 and before are almost real blacface.
Silverfance amps are better than many and most , of my opinion, than modern amps.
That why they are there after 40 years.


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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:36 pm
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Yeah Nic, the Silverface amps can be worth every penny to a player. Early '68s are virtual pre-CBS amps, as far as circuits, wiring, components, and labor are concerned. After this, there was a significant change in design, production, and components. Most folks agree that these changes were not for the best, for the players. The smaller amps, that you mentioned, were spared the design changes. But did recieve the downgraded components and a different assembly fashion(more wires running above the circuit board), aka "lead dress". In the late '70s the components were upgraded to a very good level. The only other thing that stands out, is the 1200pf suppression caps on the power tube grids to ground. These can be removed to restore the full potential of the amp, but may require some adjustment to the lead dress. Over the years, I've rehabbed a handfull of the Silverface Deluxe Reverbs, a couple of Princeton Reverbs, and a couple of Champs. IMO These are great amps and well worth the investment. Art

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Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:40 am
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Matter of preference and opinion. most like the sound/tone of the Blackface amps better. I love my Silver faced amps. I believe the Blackfaced amps sound a little warmer, because most S.F amps have smaller value caps on the power tubes. The rectifier tube was changed from 5AR4/GZ34 to 5U4. Smaller plate load resistor were used on the phase inverter stage (the small driver tube just before the output tubes) causing a decrease in gain, dynamic responce, and sustain. Vintage B.F amps are more money than the S.F amps, but I think the silver faced amps will increase in value as more people realize that they too, are great sounding amps. I gig with my S.F amps all the time, not easy on the back, but I don't want to lose that tone. :)

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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 10:01 pm
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I have a 69 Silverface Bassman that I picked up for $200 and it is one amazing sounding amp.I put the amp through either a Marshall 4-12 cabinet loaded with Celestion G12-25Ls or an old CBS Leslie loaded with a JBL K-120 and it is just unbelieveable.The older silverface models are just fabulous.

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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:11 am
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I never had a problem with a SF amp. The lead dress and soldering in general are a little sloppier but it never effected any of my SF amps. My twin is a 76 and has only recently been recapped. It never once saw a shop before that. My 74 Champ still has all the original components and sounds great. I use it for small jams and lower volume rehearsals.


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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:36 am
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There's nothing wrong with the SF amps -- I've been using my one-owner '78 TR for the last thirty-two years. Heck, it ran for 23 years on the original Fender-branded Westinghouse power tubes! I did give it a "tune-up" three years ago (new caps, all new tube complement, bias/balance adjustment). My grandkid will be able to rock with it.

Arjay


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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:30 am
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I've always liked. You can usually "Blackface" them if you prefer. I always liked mine. The tubes lasted forever in mine too.


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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:56 pm
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I just bought a 1978-1979 Silverface Twin 135W. It sounds very good.

Anyone have a list of Caps (values/voltages) that need to be replaced?


Thanks
Kevin


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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 9:17 pm
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I'd replace everything under the cap can and also the isolation caps in the bridge rectifier. Check, and if necessary re-set, the power tube bias/balance and you should be good to go. Mojotone has a good selection of HV filter caps for these UL amps.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:06 am
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How about the "Brown drop" caps? Would you replace those?


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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 5:11 am
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I guess it depends on the year the SF is from,I have a '66 BF DR and a very early SF DR,from late '67 and there's no difference in the components that I can see from what hasn't been changed,(the SF has had some of the caps replaced).
I've read that SF Champs were not changed well into the SF era.


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Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 7:09 am
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Rebelsoul wrote:
I've read that SF Champs were not changed well into the SF era.


That's true for most of the "student" models of the era (Champ, Vibro Champ, Bronco, Princeton, Princeton Reverb, and Deluxe Reverb). Most would eventually receive the safety upgrades in the '70s (grounded 3-conductor power cable and 3-position polarity switch) but only late in the game were the amps' circuit boards tampered with -- the Princetons and the DR would add the pull-boost feature to the volume control circa '79. But basically they remained unmolested throughout their entire production runs.

As for the "transitional" 67-68 drip edge models, I'll second your comments re your DRs. I have a '66 BF Bandmaster and a late '67 SF Bandmaster. The chassis are virtually identical in every respect as is the tone. And my '67 SF Showman looks to be the same as far as quality of the components and lead dress on the circuit board go.

Arjay


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