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Post subject: Early Silver Face Bandmaster
Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:45 pm
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I have a '68 Bandmaster that was made in January of that year. It's one of the early ones that still had the blackface circuitry. The amp & cab are both in very good to excellent condition for a forty two year old amplifier.

Does anyone have any idea what it might be worth? It's just taking up space and isn't being used because of its weight and size.


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Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2010 9:15 pm
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Drip edge?

I look at completed buys on eBay, but it's a mixed bag as some are in excellent condition and some are a horror show as mine was... take all the used prices with a grain of salt.

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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:43 pm
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Yes... It's a drip edge. I've checked out Ebay and Craig's List but see very few drip edge Bandmasters listed.


Last edited by doowop14 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:51 pm
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The last drip-edge Bandmaster head I bought off of Ebay (a '67 model) cost me $475. I think that's about close to average for this model. The matching speaker cab might add another $300 or $325 to the value. It's a rough market for sellers right now though......

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:10 pm
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The drip-edge trim has been dropped in the early 1970s.

AFAIK, some late '60s SF amps had the blackface AB763 circuit. The change to the AC568 occurred in May 1968.

The AC568 was not a success.

Many musicians prefer the AB763 to the AC568, as the blackface circuit makes for a better-sounding amp.

Silverface amps can be easily blackfaced by replacing the AC568 with the much popular AB763.


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:37 pm
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Yeah Doowop, that seems like a nice amp. If it hasn't been modified, then players "in the know" should really dig the set up. I'd try Vintage Guitar Magazine's classified, if you're not in a hurry. Art

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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:07 pm
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Here's a pretty nice documentation from GGJAGUAR's Guitarium & Ampeteria Website:

"In 1963 Fender redesigned nearly its entire amp line. The revised Bandmaster, still a piggy-back design and designated circuit AA763, was introduced in November 1963 and was shortly thereafter refined into the ubiquitous AB763 circuit. The early AA763 and AB763 blackface Bandmasters were caught in the transition from smooth blonde tolex with gold sparkle grillcloth (Nov. 1963 to July 1964) to black tolex with silver metallic grillcloth (Aug. 1964 to Aug. 1967). In August 1967, Fender changed the cosmetics once again, this time to the silverface style. The earliest of these (Aug. 1967 to July 1968) had aluminum grill trim, black vertical lines on the control panel and a highly textured version of the famous silver/blue sparkle grillcloth. Additionally, the speaker cabinet was enlarged and ported. In June 1968, the Bandmaster was given the infamous AC568 silverface circuit."

The amp shown below is one of the very last silverface Bandmasters produced with the blackface AB763 circuit.


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:28 pm
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The major issue with the SF Bandmaster Amp was the unnecessarily large cabinet that was designed for it. It looked impressive but performed poorly compared to the original enclosure. I've found that mating these amps to a vertically-oriented small-box Showman-sized 2 x 12 cab produces a tone that's more articulate and meaty while much easier to load/unload and tote around......

Image

I have another of these "hybrid" enclosures currently under construction for a client -- it'll have the BF cosmetics with aged silver-white grill cloth.

Arjay


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:09 pm
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Hey Arjay, this question is off topic, but I'm wondering if my 2X12 speaker enclosure is really a Fender build. It's a pine box end joined cab(unpainted interior) with a particle board( black painted interior)baffle. The demensions are: 20" H X 32" W X 11.5" D. It had the thumb screw bushings for a Bassman head to be used in the horizontal fashion. It is covered in a smooth black tolex(no texture). It originally had a closed back(particle board) with typical Fender jacks and the rest of the parts from the 70's era. I've never been able to match up those demensions with any Fender, what do you think? Art

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Last edited by aclempoppi on Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:18 pm
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The beauty under the hood of this blackface Bandmaster head/combo came from the JBL speakers.

Retro, what's the big difference between the blackface AA763 and the AB763? My question is also relevant for the silverface AA568 and the AC568.

I've read that some of the early 68 Bandmasters still had the AB763 circuit before they switched to the AA568 circuit, which is supposedly weaker sounding.


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:30 pm
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aclempoppi wrote:
Hey Arjay, this question is off topic, but I'm wondering if my 2X12 speaker enclosure is really a Fender build. It's a pine box end joined cab(unpainted interior) with a particle board( black painted interior)baffle. The demensions are: 20" H X 32" W X 11.5" D. It had the thumb screw bushings for a Bassman head to be used in the horizontal fashion. It is covered in a smooth black tolex(no texture). It originally had a closed back(particle board) with typical Fender jacks and the rest of the parts from the 70's era. I've never been able to match up those demensions with any Fender, what do you think? Art


That sounds like the "Real McCoy" to me. The "small-box" Bassman cab was made up until around the middle of '67 when (like the BF Dual Showman) it received a much larger speaker enclosure. The details you mention are correct for the early/mid '60s era. In fact, with only some slight variations, that size of 2 x 12 cabinet is used with Fender's Tonemaster, Supersonic, and Vintage Modified Bandmaster.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:53 pm
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chromeface wrote:
The beauty under the hood of this blackface Bandmaster head/combo came from the JBL speakers.

Retro, what's the big difference between the blackface AA763 and the AB763? My question is also relevant for the silverface AA568 and the AC568.

I've read that some of the early 68 Bandmasters still had the AB763 circuit before they switched to the AA568 circuit, which is supposedly weaker sounding.


Years ago a friend and I (he, an EE undergradute student at Cal Poly) examined two '64 Super Reverb amps -- one was identified by its tube chart as an AA763 while the other (built about 4 months later) was an AB763.

The only observable difference between these two seemingly identical amps that we were able to discern were a minor change in value for the cap and fixed resistor in the biasing circuit. That was the extent of it. They both sounded identical when played through the same cabinet with the same set of speakers.

In the case of the AA568 Bandmasters, I'm guessing the first production models probably shipped from Fullerton in the late summer or early autumn of '68. Thus, any Bandmasters built prior to July or early August were likely the original AB763 chassis. Both of my SF drip-edge Bandmasters date to '67 -- one in August, the other in October.

Indeed, I am a big fan of alnico JBLs (the D and K series). I buy them up whenever I can score a bargain. Once Ron at Neal's Speaker Service in Sacramento reconditions them they're good for a lifetime. My home stereo is built around a pair of vintage one-owner L100As and even my new Tacoma double-cab pickup is equipped with the upgraded Bose/JBL audio system.

HTH

Arjay


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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:24 pm
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Thanks for the responce, Arjay. Art

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Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:31 pm
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Anytime, Art. Happy to help. And you can e-mail me direct anytime.

Arjay


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Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:06 am
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those silver drip bandmasters are really nice and punchy, with the original cab they definitely move some air!

I'd say they are in the 1000 USD range, depending on the condition (that's amp+cab)

the heads usually go for around 600 USD and you can get another 400 for the cab if everything's all original, etc etc

I'll check in last year's VG guide and let you know :D (don't have it here right now)


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