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Post subject: Dilemma of which vintage fender amp to buy, help!
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:41 am
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Hey all

Recently finalised two options of a fender amp I want to buy and just wanted your opinions on it.
For the record, I already have a JCM 800 for high gain stuff, mainly wanted a fender for the clean tone, for blues, mellow stuff.

So the option is:
Vintage early 1970s Non master volume Fender Dual Showman Reverb Twin TFL5000D (silverface) head (£799), which I can use my Marshall 1936 Lead cab with until i get a seperate cab. The seller said he had done these changes recently: "All electrolytic capacitors replaced with highest quality Sprague atoms. This is essential in a valve amp of this age as they dry out & become unreliable after 15 - 20 years.
Bright switches on both channels replaced
new opto isolator for vibrato channel..". He also mentioned as this is the non master volume head, era (early 70's) its much close to the blackface tone.

Or

Fender Twin Reverb Silverface 1974, with the current specs: (£750)
- 2 x 100W MacKenzie speakers
- Svetlana SV6L6GC tubes (new)
- Built-in spring reverb & vibrato
- Master Volume (pull-boost)
- Detachable castors
- Adjustable tilt arms
- Original footswitch for reverb/vibrato
Owner said its just all been cleaned, checked and resoldered where necessary at the same time as the valves were replaced and balanced up. Obviously the original speakers have been changed in late 80's to the Mackenzie's he said.


So which one to shoot for? What are your opinions?

Thanks!

EDIT: Actually also found a Fender Bassman blackface 1965, see my post below so thats definitely added to the list now, though had a few concerns.


Last edited by Azaril000 on Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:38 am
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The Dual Showman head will get you all the clean Fender tone you want. So will the Twin Reverb. Practically, the head and separate cab will be much easier to lug around. Moving the Twin around will get old fast as it's a back killer. Hope this helps....................... 8) Mike

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Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:25 pm
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Hi there Azar, and welcome to the forum. The two amps that you mentioned are essentially the same 100watt reverb & vibrato equipped amp. The only difference being the head vs the combo, all other variables aside(new filter caps, new power tubes, and the speakers). They should both give you the same strong clean performance. But you also refer to a mellow blues tone, I'm not sure what you're going for here. I played rhythm in a blues band for years with an older(85watt) Twin Reverb, and that certainly delivered a deep sweet tone with a Strat. Art

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Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:14 pm
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I like the versatility of the Dual Showman Reverb - you can play it through your existing Marshall Cab, or get another cabinet with 2x12's, 1x15, etc. and play through that - or use your JCM800 on it as well.

For gigging, get a speciallized switch like the Radial Headbone Amp Head switcher http://www.tonebone.com/tb-headbone-vt.htm

and have both amps into your speaker cab. The key is that the switcher presents a resistive load to the speaker out on both amp heads at all times...

good luck!

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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:35 pm
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Actually, I've let go of the Twin reverb as it does have a master volume, I havent heard many good things about MV silverface twins, and it would be a bother to have it removed. Although I dont know what exactly about the master volume knob that makes it so bad?

But Ive found a little gem, a blackface, 1965 Bassman head AA165 circuit, Im from the UK, and its in America, I figure I'd use a step down transformer with it to go from 240v to 110v.

My only concern is: reverb.

The Dual showman reverb has a spring tank reverb (like the twin), the real deal, and I do love some reverb in house playing. Alot of people go on about the bassman's, being THE fender amp. Could I suppliment the bassman with a decent pedal reverb, is there a SIGNIFICANT difference between the real reverb and a good pedal reverb?

Also how different is a Bassman CLEAN vs a Dual showman/ Twin reverb CLEAN? What's the general consensus of whats considered better ( I know its a opinion thing, but I want YOUR opinion)?

Like i said I have a nice JCM 800 for my dirt, Im purely looking for the most pleasing the most classic Fender tone, If I ever need dirt from it, I'll pedal it. Like i said I play alot of blues/ mellow blues and general 'comfortable on the ear' stuff.

So which is it, Dual Showman Reverb or Bassman 1965?


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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:36 pm
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Bassman All the way! Having gone from a Princeton Reverb to a Bandmaster, I thought I'd miss reverb. Playing live - not at all.

Many options for converting US to 240 via google.


Good luck!

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Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:47 pm
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BTW, if you still really need reverb:

Splurge: get the new Dr. Z reverb head, which is more like a Fender standalone reverb than the Fender unit and sells for less, but is better made.

Pedals - the Boss Fender modeling pedal is apparently close. EH Holy Grail is liked by some, despised by others.

Of course like everything else, you'd need to try before you buy (or have a generous return policy).

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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:14 pm
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Thanks for the replies so far, would mroe than appreciate any further opinions!


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Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:31 pm
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Yeah Azar, I like the idea of the Bassman also. The reverb sound usually gets lost when playing with other people on the bandstand, IMO. So that's a tough decision for you. Art

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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:32 pm
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Ok,

On a impulse moment I have agreed to buy the 65 bassman, for $800 (£530 ).

Before I commit, I just wanna make sure, I can get some good cleans out of this thing. Can I get something close to a twin clean? I dont plan to play at breakup volume alot so it'll be played at low volumes mostly, and breakup after that is always a bonus for me! Im not too worried about headroom as it'll be living in my room, which doesnt require 10 on the volume to be heard :).

I know fender twin cleans are bright, lots of highs etc. Would a bassman come close/match it? Would love some mids in the clean aswell.

Thanks!


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Posted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:39 pm
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I love my 65 Image I get great cleans out of mine. Breaks up at about 5. Very loud................... 8) Mike

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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:49 pm
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Cheers guys, pretty difficult decision, would appreciate more discussion/thoughts.


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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:07 pm
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Hey there Azar, that Bassman should be plenty clean but not as sparkly as a Twin. The bass channel is voiced to give a clean signal for a bass guitar, so it's not as bright as the normal channel. The normal channel is the same as a Band Master's. I changed three caps in the bass channel's tone stack to make it more guitar friendly. The mids are set by a resistor on the bass control, and can be adjusted to your preference. There is also an extra filter cap for the pre amp, Fender didn't want this amp to sag or run short of clean power. The stock output transformers are especially strong and reliable units. I actually changed mine out for a '63 Bassman clone, because it was too much for the 2X10 combo cab I have my Bassman in. Finally the negative feed back loop is the same on the power section, as the other mid 60 amps. But there is a local feedback loop for the bass channel. These keep the signal on a clean broad bandwidth, until the amp is turned up so high it breaks the loop and distortion sets in. In stock trim, I think you'll like it, and if your tastes change, the amp can be easily tweaked. Art

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Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:16 pm
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Mike - perhaps you and Art can clarify -

on '65 Fenders, I thought all/most of them had "Fender Electric Instrument Co." on the front plate.

What month did this change, or was this a change in '66? I know the back would be different as well, as I believe in 66 they started adding the "a division of Colombia (sic) Records"

thanks.

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Our band: http://www.facebook.com/thetoysband


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Posted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:18 am
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nedorama wrote:
Mike - perhaps you and Art can clarify -

on '65 Fenders, I thought all/most of them had "Fender Electric Instrument Co." on the front plate.

What month did this change, or was this a change in '66? I know the back would be different as well, as I believe in 66 they started adding the "a division of Colombia (sic) Records"

thanks.
Not sure. My tube chart is OK, denoting late 65 (Nov). You may be on the right track as to an early 66 change.............. 8) Mike

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