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Post subject: Line out vs speaker jack
Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:47 pm
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I have a Fender Deluxe Reverb purchased new in 1974. It does not have a line out, only the speaker jack and an wxtension speaker jack. Can anyone tell me if I can unplug the speaker and run it direct into a mixer board without damaging the amp?

Thanks Bob2377


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Posted: Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:11 pm
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Short answer NO!!! Bob that's not anything you'd want to do. If micing the amp or increasing the speaker array won't get you the volume, there are line out add-on options that will allow the internal speaker to operate and still provide the line level out. It's a matter of finding the least intrusive set up. I think Weber has one that would only require a bracket and a couple of wood screws in the cab. You know what I mean? The smallest footprint possible. ART

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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:17 pm
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Yikes is right!

Is the issue that it's too loud to play, or other issues? Let us know what the problem is and that may help.

Couple of ways you can do this:

If it's too loud, a non-invasive mod is something like the Dr. Z. Brake Lite, which is a speaker attenuator. You plug its cord into your speaker out jack, and then plug your speaker into its input. The dial lets you attenuate how loud your amp gets. I own one and it's made my Bandmaster more versatile and usable.

Radial JDI - has a speaker button to let you use the speaker out, but you need to connect the speaker to the other side. you then have a DI mic-level line to go to your mixer.
ADA Microcab II - similar idea. Again, must have thhe speaker connected to the output of the MicroCab II for the correct load.
Red Box - similar idea, several different variations of this.

I've owned all three of these. All work OK, the JDI and the Red Box win for being passive - the ADA has a big AC cord permanently attached. None are as good as a real amp and speaker for recording, but on a busy stage where leakage is an issue, may help.

Palmer Speaker Simulator PDI-03
http://www.palmergear.com/pdi03.shtml

This is what people like EVH, others use. Acts as a speaker load, DI, etc so that you can connect this and only this to your amp and get your tone to tape. Also a lot more pricey than the previous options.

Art's suggestion is another way to go, but you will need to mod your amp and may not get power tube distortion (depending on the mod). I can't solder for anything, so tend to look to other ways.

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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:31 pm
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Hey guys thanks for all the input. Mainly what I am wanting is to cut the volumn on the amp and allow the mixer to increase or decrease as needed. Looks like I have some research and decisions to make. Again, great info.


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Posted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:38 pm
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Thought you were just looking for more volume, my bad. The Weber balanced/unbalanced line out takes a sample off the speaker signal. So the pre amp, power amp, and the reactive speaker load all contribute to the signal being sent to the mixer. What I like about this unit is that it is on the secondary side of the output transformer and that there is the option to use 1/4" or XLR cables. Yeah it would require some thought and handiwork to mount it properly, but there is no need to drill the chassis and could be easily removed. This would not allow you to pad down the internal speaker though. Oh well, just an idea. ART

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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:41 am
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I think the Dr. Z Brake Lite may work - there are other ones that are similar - Dr. Z Airbrake, THD Hotplate, Weber (several at http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm)

Good luck. I went with the Airbrake as it mounts to your cabinet inside with 2 screws and is "installed" in 2 minutes. sounds great and with a turn, your amp is at full volume. It's about $170 at TrueTone and other places.


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Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:48 pm
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Thanks again guys. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I was unaware there were this many possibilities.


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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:26 pm
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bob2377 wrote:
Thanks again guys. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I was unaware there were this many possibilities.


Bob,

Here is what I use for this. Its a direct box from Live-Wire. It has 1/4" input and output (through) jacks for your amp output and speaker to plug into. On the other side there is an XLR jack to allow you to feed a balanced signal to your snake box or direct to your board to be injected into the main PA. It works like a charm and doesn't hurt your tone. You have the benefit of all the characteristics of your amp output stage and mechanical/inductive/capacitive components of your speaker to shape the sound coming out. Works real nice and its cheap. There are other brands if you aren't comfortable with their house brand.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Live-Wire-S ... 1372940.gc

Have fun! -Ron


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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:13 pm
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Yep, that looks like the way to go! Great info Ron. ART

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Posted: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:14 pm
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Ron, thanks. this looks like the best way for me to go. Simple, cheap and ease of operation. Also seems like ART agrees. Thanks guys.

Bob


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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 2:53 pm
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No - this is not what you're looking for and may damage your amp if you use this inline from your speaker out jack. The only way this works is if you plug your guitar in one jack, and the amp input gets the other jack, but then you're not getting any of your amp's sound.

On the Live Wire DI, the attenuation knob simply pads down the signal from high impedance (bass, acoustic, keyboard) and transfers it down to a low-impedance signal for mic level. This is for hot keyboards and other LINE LEVEL sources that need attenuating. This will do nothing for your amp volume and from reading your post. this may also be dangerous to your amp - you can't run a tube amp without a load (ie a speaker). At $29, this cannot be a good thing especially for your vintage amp - it's worth too much to screw up. Spend the real money ($150 ish) and do it right. $29 of parts means that a speaker out level will saturate the transformer (not good for sound or your amp).

If you want a DI to do this, you need one that is specially built to take a speaker out from an amp with a pass-thru for a speaker - as I said in my original post, either a Red Cab or a Radial JDI would be to get a mic-level signal from your speaker out, but it does nothing to make your amp level go down.

If you want your DR to play at lower levels, you need a proper speaker attenuator - do not skimp on this or you risk the danger of damaging your amp.


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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:42 pm
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Nedorama, thanks. You may very well be right. I think to jeopardize the vintage amp should not be taken lightly. Perhaps the best way to go is to mic the amp and be satisified with the performance, or get an amp with a line out.

I appreciated all the input and if I decided to proceed, I need to take the value of this amp into consideration.

Again, thanks to all.


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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:35 pm
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Yeah Bob, I'd take Neo's advice on out-board gear. I'm an old amp tech(player) guy and not familiar with all the newer options on the market. I use a Whirl Wind DI box at work for a Clavinova, and he's right about it being designed for a line level signal. ART

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