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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Fri May 24, 2019 8:46 am
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If you are getting 60Hz noise (around open Low-E)… you may want to try lifting the 12AX7(s) and 6V6GT one heater line-to-ground. Then run a separate line from the lamp socket (along with the other heater line), to these tubes. Twisting the two (like what is done in most Fender amps) --- helps reduce 60Hz induced hum. Rectifier wiring remains the same.

Photos from two different VCs.

:mrgreen:
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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:50 am
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I'm pretty much a Sica Jensen Ri guy. Having worked with them for years I know what they can and can not do, i.e. what models work best with what amps, etc...

The 40oz magnet on Weber drivers is one of the main reason I don't use them. I like a speaker with an average breakup and low efficiency. Hence the "why" I prefer Sica (The Italian) Jensen Ri's with their lower "vintage" efficiency. (allows me to push the amp into a sweater spot at lower volumes) I Don't think it's accurate to compare Webers and hold Weber's above Jensen Ri's as many are want to do on the internet. Weber has one 40 oz magnet driver that they put 4 different types of cones on it, and custom the surround dope to suit.

If Weber would offer a 30oz mag on their driver I would definitely be interested. Through working with the Sica Jensen Ri's I've found when compared to to the Weber (w/ the similar cone) IMO... the Jensen Ri hold their own against Webers. I found both have their strong suits


I will add though.... To my ears the Sica Jensens Ri's after getting broke in sound truer to the originals than Webers.
(they do have an unusually long break-in time due to the amount of dope they use) Few really take the time to compare Sica Jensen Ri's to Webers and usually just run on internet assumptions. [

Some examples on the web that run counter to the assertion that Webers are much better the Sica Jensen Ri's:

Sica Jensen Ri P12Q vs Speed shop's (Weber's 12A125 i.e. Weber's flagship vintage speaker)


Don't know about others but I hear two speakers with strong attributes just in different areas (IMO, in this mix... the Jensen sounds a little softer, sweeter with a little more presence up front) Again given the lower efficiency of the Sica Jensen Ri over the Weber.. that would be the speaker I'd go with. 12A125 being Weber's flagship and all & the internet hype... One would have thought that the speaker would be head and shoulders above the Jensen Ri in this mix.

Here is another: Sica Jensen Ri P12N vs Weber's P12N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fv075b8Whg



Again both equally strong w/ different attributes .. However, the lower efficiency of Sica Jensen Ri's wins again. Again... P12N is a premier speaker by Weber. The myth that Webers are much better than Jensen Ris really doesn't compute when you start comparing the two.

In both examples, the Weber's are not anything above and beyond the Sica Jensen Ri's. (Both are Equal... Just different attributes)

Touching on my comment "Imo after getting broken the Italian Sica Jensen Ris sound very close to the originals"



Video proof that my opinion has some merit.

To be honest.. if your looking for great American tonality in a speaker one can't go wrong with the following
Weber
Jupiter Condensors
Eminence Legend (1258 1228 etc)
WGS G12Cs
or the Sica Jensen Ri's

One could almost blindfold themselves and just pick.. not going to go wrong with any of them for there are just slight difference between the whole lot.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:28 pm
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Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 2:54 pm
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pcalugaru wrote:
I'm pretty much a Sica Jensen Ri guy. Having worked with them for years I know what they can and can not do, i.e. what models work best with what amps, etc....


So, instead of offering any advice on an 8" speaker in a blackface Vibro Champ (which is what the last 3 pages are about) you go on with ...
pcalugaru wrote:
The 40oz magnet on Weber drivers is one of the main reason I don't use them....
While Weber offers absolutely no specs on their speakers, I doubt seriously they use 40 oz. magnets on their 8 inch speakers.

pcalugaru wrote:
I like a speaker with an average breakup and low efficiency. Hence the "why" I prefer Sica (The Italian) Jensen Ri's with their lower "vintage" efficiency. (allows me to push the amp into a sweater spot at lower volumes) I Don't think it's accurate to compare Webers and hold Weber's above Jensen Ri's as many are want to do on the internet. Weber has one 40 oz magnet driver that they put 4 different types of cones on it, and custom the surround dope to suit.

If Weber would offer a 30oz mag on their driver I would definitely be interested. Through working with the Sica Jensen Ri's I've found when compared to to the Weber (w/ the similar cone) IMO... the Jensen Ri hold their own against Webers. I found both have their strong suits


I will add though.... To my ears the Sica Jensens Ri's after getting broke in sound truer to the originals than Webers.
(they do have an unusually long break-in time due to the amount of dope they use) Few really take the time to compare Sica Jensen Ri's to Webers and usually just run on internet assumptions. [

Some examples on the web that run counter to the assertion that Webers are much better the Sica Jensen Ri's:

Sica Jensen Ri P12Q vs Speed shop's (Weber's 12A125 i.e. Weber's flagship vintage speaker)


Don't know about others but I hear two speakers with strong attributes just in different areas (IMO, in this mix... the Jensen sounds a little softer, sweeter with a little more presence up front) Again given the lower efficiency of the Sica Jensen Ri over the Weber.. that would be the speaker I'd go with. 12A125 being Weber's flagship and all & the internet hype... One would have thought that the speaker would be head and shoulders above the Jensen Ri in this mix.

Here is another: Sica Jensen Ri P12N vs Weber's P12N
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fv075b8Whg



Again both equally strong w/ different attributes .. However, the lower efficiency of Sica Jensen Ri's wins again. Again... P12N is a premier speaker by Weber. The myth that Webers are much better than Jensen Ris really doesn't compute when you start comparing the two.

In both examples, the Weber's are not anything above and beyond the Sica Jensen Ri's. (Both are Equal... Just different attributes)

Touching on my comment "Imo after getting broken the Italian Sica Jensen Ris sound very close to the originals"

....

pcalugaru wrote:

Video proof that my opinion has some merit.

More like "different speakers sound different". No one here would dispute that.
They would dispute that Youtube videos offer no proof of how a speaker actually sounds.
I don't think a Youtube video played through a 1 " laptop speaker represents that, much less how "dynamic" a speaker is.

I've found a java beverage and maybe a donut prepares me for the fact that listening to a youtube video means absolutely nothing as far as any speaker actually sounds.


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:01 pm
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mud wrote:
Hello have not spent too much time here lately. Since March I have been in a forced retirement situation from my job and I seem to not get here to often now that the job has me working part time, and paying me full time, until May 30. I did most of my communication in this forum from work, I see why there retiring me. Now I find my self more busy not coming to work, with less time for the forum, I guess I will have to figure out a balance.
Never the less I still put in my 1.5 to 2 hours a day making noise in my house with my guitar and amps, but have only used the VC since March 18 when I put the Weber in, I assume it is broken in by now. I did however last week decide to try the stock speaker for a comparison. I set up my test gear and did a few test with the different speakers, thought I did good notation on my measurement and after I compiled the data, something did not seem right, maybe I had a senior moment and now I just don't trust my data, so I will have to do it again. I will try to get to it in the next week or two.

Vinyl I did not do this test yet but when I am testing out the speakers again I will add a more linear speaker to the test
vinyl wrote:
Here's a thought. Guitar speakers are not very "linear" compared to a hi-fi speaker. Temporarily hooking it up to a hifi speaker to measure the hum might shed some light on the source, 120 Hz rectifier ripple or 60 Hz heater noise.

No progress the 125 and 250 Hz hum is still present. With my meter set to 30db-90db and 5 feet away the Weber reads 38 db at 250, and with the stock speaker 1 foot away from my meter, it reads 34db at 250Hz. As far as the sonic improvement goes, now that I switched back to the stock speaker I feel the Weber took the Fender sound away, to my ears it did sound like a different amp not a Fender,
What got me was at one point I plugged into my early 1968 PR and it had this tone that was not in my VC any more and than I plugged into my 1969 SR and there it was that sound I did not have in my VC anymore, I call it breath it just was not there, now that the stock speaker is back in it now has breath. I will admit the Weber did sound very good and articulate at higher volume and I feel it was a lot louder than the stock speaker. If I was in a situation where I was going to use the VC in a small band, I would use the Weber, as it might get over the drums, of course it depends on the drummer, but than again I would most likely just use my PR of my SR instead.
In conclusion I liked the Weber it does in my opinion take some of the fender sound out of the VC, I would think it's the difference between the Alnico and Ceramic magnet that make the big difference, as mentioned I have a VC, PR, and SR they all have ceramics, must be some reason Leo specked these speakers for these amps, my guess it was for a certain sound.
For my needs playing and practicing in a small room by myself the stock speaker works best as the Weber defeats the purpose of a quieter amp,in volume, and of course in my situation that 250Hz hum that is there always but much more present with the Weber.

Retroverbial wrote:
Any progress on isolating and rectifying the hum issue?

Overall, how much of a sonic improvement did the new speaker provide?

Arjay
Yeah I gave that a go with no change
Retroverbial wrote:
Did you clean both of the input jacks? They are self-switching but if corrosion accumulates on those contacts a hum or buzz is often the result. I use emery or krocus cloth to gently abrade both sides to ensure a positive connection.

Arjay

mud

Mud,
I've always enjoyed your posts here, could you let us know you're OK, or at least surviving your forced retirement.
Don't mean to pry. Maybe you've decided to stop contributing, which is perfectly fine, but just wanted to let you know we miss your posts here.

Regardless of your test data, and if you've decided to stop contributing, I hope you're doing ok.

Cheers,


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:39 pm
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vinyl wrote:
Mud,
I've always enjoyed your posts here, could you let us know you're OK, or at least surviving your forced retirement.
Don't mean to pry. Maybe you've decided to stop contributing, which is perfectly fine, but just wanted to let you know we miss your posts here.


+1

In aviator's terms, you're a "good stick" Mud.

Rawk on!

Arjay

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"Here's why reliability is job one: A great sounding amp that breaks down goes from being a favorite piece of gear to a useless piece of crap in less time than it takes to read this sentence." -- BRUCE ZINKY


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Post subject: Re: Speaker for Vibro Champ
Posted: Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:03 pm
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Greetings. This thread got way more technical than I anticipated. Does OP have any video of him playing it with the new speaker? I’d love to hear this little beauty!

Thanks
Super B


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