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Post subject: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:04 am
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Quick question-
I am about to replace the 2 prong with a 3 prong on a 6G15. I am reading about possible ground loop issues with the 3 prong.

If I have noise after installing, would reversing the connections of the leads from the power transformer (not the outlet side) remedy the loop?

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:42 am
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Are you saying reverse the leads off the secondary side of the power tranny? It may work. Best thing to do is wire the primary leads the same way with each three-prong mod. Keep the "hot" or black lead on the fuse. And the "neutral" or white onto the PT. Then, your chances of out-of-phase components attached to each other is less likely.

A cheater plug, that allows you to flip the AC plug into the outlet can help determine polarity issues. But, DO NOT use this as a permanent solution. You lose Earth ground with these devices.

Wiring scheme:

Image


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:26 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Are you saying reverse the leads off the secondary side of the power tranny? It may work. Best thing to do is wire the primary leads the same way with each three-prong mod. Keep the "hot" or black lead on the fuse. And the "neutral" or white onto the PT. Then, your chances of out-of-phase components attached to each other is less likely.

A cheater plug, that allows you to flip the AC plug into the outlet can help determine polarity issues. But, DO NOT use this as a permanent solution. You lose Earth ground with these devices.

Wiring scheme:

Image



Thanks!
I don't intend to switch the hot or neutral from their respective locations to ensure the hot is in line with the fuse.

On the diagram there are two black wires coming from the transformer. Those are the ones I'm referring to.

I wasn't sure if switching those would make any difference in ground loop noise.

I'm probably going to bypass the the courtesy outlet.

So, if there's a ground loop, try a 2 prong adapter? If that fixes it, swap the black wires coming from the transformer and that might resolve the issue?

Thanks!


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:33 pm
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Bottleneck wrote:
I'm probably going to bypass the the courtesy outlet.


I find the convenience outlet on vintage Fender equipment useful for powering a pedal board or other low-current device.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:48 pm
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Retroverbial wrote:
Bottleneck wrote:
I'm probably going to bypass the the courtesy outlet.


I find the convenience outlet on vintage Fender equipment useful for powering a pedal board or other low-current device.

Arjay


That's a thought....I may reconsider.


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:08 pm
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Bottleneck, does your 6G15 have an extra outlet? Mine doesn't. This is the Reverb Unit, correct?

My drawing is for the generic Fender amplifier three-prong wiring.


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:06 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
Bottleneck, does your 6G15 have an extra outlet? Mine doesn't. This is the Reverb Unit, correct?


+1

I've never seen that feature on a reverb tank, not even the silverface re-issues from the '70s.

:?:

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:11 pm
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Yes, I'm referring to a 6G15. My tube chart has "MH" stamp. It has an accessory outlet.

It's interesting you guys haven't seen this before-nearly every google image I pull up of a vintage reverb unit chassis has an accessory outlet.

I am thinking this:
1. White from accessory outlet to black transformer wire (splice).
2. Black from accessory outlet to fuse tip.
3. Jumper from switch to fuse ring.
4. Ground to PT lug.

Thoughts?
Image

Also, here's the schem showing acc. outlet:
Image


Last edited by Bottleneck on Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:42 pm
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The extra AC outlet was added afterwards. Fender (or anyone else) does not use the universal green wire to wire-up this outlet. That color is reserved for the tube's heater lines.

But it's an interesting thought. Be sure that the white of the power line goes to the small spade of the extra outlet. Black to larger spade. To maintain polarity of whatever you plug into this outlet.

Yes, your wiring example seems correct. Here's photo of how I did my Reverb Unit. The wire I used had red as hot. Not black.

Image


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:54 pm
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Bottleneck wrote:
Yes, I'm referring to a 6G15. My tube chart has "MH" stamp. It has an accessory outlet.

It's interesting you guys haven't seen this before-nearly every google image I pull up of a vintage reverb unit chassis has an accessory outlet.


I've been at this for nearly fifty years and I have NEVER seen an AC convenience outlet on a 6G15 reverb tank. Not brown, not blonde, not blackface, not silverface. NEVER.

I'd like to see some pics of those tanks you allege to have seen with that feature.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:12 pm
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Arjay, check out his photo. You can see the chassis had an extra hole punched for the outlet.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipP ... 10cXdTMDdR


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:06 pm
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I saw it and the original schematic. It's not shown on the silverface re-issue drawing though. Apparently Fender deleted it when they decided to update the design in the '70s and change the power pentode from a 6K6 to the 6V6GTA. I must say though, for a "convenience" outlet, it wasn't located in a very convenient location.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:25 pm
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For sure. You need to pull off the back panel to see it.


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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:38 pm
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
For sure. You need to pull off the back panel to see it.


+1

Probably why I was unaware of its existence (and I've owned two 6G15's over the years).

:oops:

I did find several pics on the web and all showed the outlet to be connected with green cloth push-back wire so that's correct for Bottleneck's unit. Odd perhaps but it is what it is.

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: 3 Prong Power Cord 6G15 Install Question
Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:36 am
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BMW2002Ti wrote:
The extra AC outlet was added afterwards. Fender (or anyone else) does not use the universal green wire to wire-up this outlet. That color is reserved for the tube's heater lines.

But it's an interesting thought. Be sure that the white of the power line goes to the small spade of the extra outlet. Black to larger spade. To maintain polarity of whatever you plug into this outlet.

Yes, your wiring example seems correct. Here's photo of how I did my Reverb Unit. The wire I used had red as hot. Not black.

Image


This photo is your actual unit?
The accessory outlet is there with green wire attached to it.
Just want to confirm mine is not an anomaly.

Perhaps Fender put it in this location so when it sat on an amp, the amp was plugged in to the unit the the unit was plugged into the wall.

Thank for your help!


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