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Post subject: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 6:38 pm
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While watching a video of our group, I noticed that every time I played a "D" note on the "A" string, you could not hear it. I heard the note while performing. Can strings get a dead spot. I know the strings are over 6 years old, but they still sound good.
:?:

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:58 pm
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Wow, and I get scared with flats at a year old. Congrats on getting full use from those strings.

You did not give any details as to what bass, strings, etc., but it is common for a bass to have a dead zone on a neck. I usually find mine on the G string sometime D, but to me, the A is unusual.

I will wait for Brother Dave to respond, but I know there are weights you can add to the headstock to relieve the issue. I think I once read they actually used C clamps back in the day, but how there are weights made just for that issue.

Dave? Please correct me.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:24 am
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Did your open D string also sound attenuated on the video?

Arjay

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:24 am
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Retroverbial wrote:
Did your open D string also sound attenuated on the video?

Arjay


That's a good question. I try to do closed notes whenever possible, in place of opens for the same notes. You really got your service out of that set of strings, six times, and over.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:39 pm
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I should probably clarify something about the strings. Out of the 6 plus years, 4 years I barely played the guitar. I started playing regularly last year. I have not tried playing an open D. At practice tonight, I was paying attention to the sound and my strings need replaced. But that will wait a little while since my Dimension will be here tomorrow. :D

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:54 pm
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I wouldn't judge your bass strings from the recording done via a video recorder.
If you were happy with the sound that you heard live it was probably not anything to do with your bass but possibly the room or the video recorder's microphone and its inherent compression rating to counter loud sounds.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 3:10 pm
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You seriously haven't changed your strings in 6 years! I would start by getting a new set.


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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:13 pm
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pfox14 yes it has been over 6 years. One thing that helps is that I clean them after each time I played the guitar and for 4 years I may have played it once a year.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:30 pm
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some video recorders will have less response to certain frequencies and it could be the room and the recorder picks up the fault in the room or it could be other things.
As for strings- I have had strings last for years if the guitar is in a case but 2 years of playing , well personally I'd change them . You'll probably notice the difference.

I've been experiencing many guitarists and bassists that don't change strings. They always have this big grin on their face when they say "I ain't changed 'em string in nary a 5 year an ay still sound good right there". Drives me nuts.


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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:52 am
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Now that I have my new Dimension, I can take the time and put new strings on it and go through the setup. It has been a good bass. It has served me well.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:49 am
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Agree with BC and Stoker. Don't count on the audio in the video recorder to be accurate. I would probably think about getting some new strings on it in the next few years though. :lol:

Believe me, if you had a severe dead spot you'd know it. Dead spots have shorter sustain and less full bottom. Some are worse than others. The worst ones yield just a soft thud at the pitch of the fret position instead of the full sounding sustained note present at other frets. Dead spots can turn into dead zones on fretless basses.

In this video recording situation the room might have a resonant frequency that creates a standing wave at that frequency which cancels out the note when you are not right in front of the amp. Also the microphone or the microphone housing itself can also be vibrating at just the right frequency to create a standing wave cancelling out the note within the microphone.

Bolt-on 34" scale electric basses seem to be the most prone to dead spots. Dead spots are caused when a standing wave is created in the neck at a certain resonant frequency. This issue is usually blamed on the instrument having a bolt-on wooden neck but the issue has also shown up in neck through basses and on graphite necks. They are far from being exclusively a Fender issue as it happens in all brands and in all price ranges. It seems to almost never happen on a short scale bass. As was mentioned, you will often find a dead spot living around the fifth fret of the first string on a 34" scale electric bass, but they can happen anywhere in playing range. It depends on the resonant frequency of the neck.

With a dead spot what is happening is that the string starts out vibrating just as it does on all the other notes but the sympathetic resonant frequency of the neck reacts with a standing wave to that particular frequency that makes the note start out sounding softer initially and then severely cancels out the sustain.

Yes Affprod is correct. C-Clamps affixed to the headstock have historically been used to change the mass of the neck to hopefully move the dead spots out of the range of play. I've heard a legend that whenever someone complained to Leo Fender in person about a dead spot on Fender basses he would give them a C-Clamp.

Today's clip-on tuners will also change the mass of the neck. By changing the mass you can move a dead spot which was out of the range of play into the range of play. The heavier the clip-on tuner, the more it changes the mass of the neck. If you have a bass neck with no dead spots then great! But put a clip-on tuner on it and you just messed with the mass and the spot could have moved into the range of play.

If you have a severe dead spot you want to add mass to the headstock to move the dead spot. By changing the mass of the neck you change the resonant frequency, hence why a C-Clamp works to move the dead spot around and hopefully take it out of the range of play.

"Groove-Tubes" developed a clip on weight called a "Fat-Finger" that certainly is more attractive than a C-Clamp and is padded to cause no damage to the headstock. Fender bought out Groove-Tubes a while back so now the "Fat Finger" product says "FENDER" on it. They make them for both Spanish electric and electric bass but you hardly ever hear anything about dead spots on a Spanish electric so I don't think they sell many of those.

The big catch in adding weight is that you are hoping to move the dead spot completely out of the range of play, but unfortunately it also can go somewhere else in the range of play or you can wind up with two or three dead spots instead of just one.

Not all basses have severe dead spots, but almost all will have at least minor sustain degradation somewhere on some fret.

Another reason to play before you buy. Play every fret and check that volume and sustain are both approximately equal all up and down the neck on every string. It's easier to get one that seems OK out of the box than trying to eliminate it later.

Worse, dead spots can come and go and they can even move around on their own due changing atmospheric conditions. The more moisture in the wood the more mass there is so you can see them come and go and even move around during periods of changeable weather conditions or in traveling from the desert to a more humid location.

Adding mass seems to be the most universally accepted fix for dead spots. I've seen instruments that had small holes drilled UNDER where the back plate of the tuners seat and small weights added. When you reinstall the tuners the backplate of the tuners cover the additional holes where the weights were countersunk. This is a pretty serious mod and should only be attempted by someone with experience at the task.

The exact opposite of a dead spot is a "Wolf Tone." A wolf tone is a fretted note that sounds louder with more sustain than other fretted notes. With a wolf tone when you hit the note it sustains longer and seems to get louder and louder and louder until it just eventually gets ridiculously loud. Wolf tones are just as common as dead spots, if not in fact more common, but wolf tones are not talked about nearly as much as dead spots. Again changing the mass of the neck can move a wolf tone out of the range of the fretted notes, but not always. Sometimes you wind up just moving them around or creating 2 or 3 where there was only 1 to being with.

It is a tricky business to tweak out dead spots and wolf tones.

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Last edited by brotherdave on Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:03 am
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I am doubly blessed as neither one of my Fender basses have dead spots or wolf tones.

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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:24 am
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I got rid of all the basses I had that had those kind of problems. I should have done that sooner than I did. It would have saved me money.


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Post subject: Re: Is it my strings or the video recorder
Posted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:04 pm
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That is some interesting information, brotherdave. I have other video where this doesn't happen. So it is either the room or the recorder. The other videos were recorded on different devices.

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